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88 Ways to Become a Stronger Coach
Feedback and suggestions from the R&D Team...

I think, from my OD experience, that a lot of people innately fear confrontation and many people want to be ""liked"" and accepted by others as external validation (gee, figured out what I need to work on?).

Perhaps too, some of this may be economical meaning not wanting to ""lose"" customers by telling the truth.  Truth making people upset perhaps? I think the expectation needs to be set up front that the truth
will be spoken...and modeled.

Being a new coach, I need a dosage of my own medicine here. LOL.
I look forward to working with you and the rest of Coachville. Thomas' works changed my life forever.
I miss him.


1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? We are being paid as a professional service provider after all, and we cheat our clients when we hold back with them. Why do coaches hang out in the safety zone of building up, encouraging their clients to be better, at the expense of calling it like it really is? Is it a case of needing to be able to recognize what truly is going on? Is that the
missing link? Is it lack of self-confidence on the coaches part? Or is it that coaches simply do not know
how to be provocative, therefore they aren't? Key thing to know/understand. Why are you not more
provocative with your clients?


I loved getting the R and D mail from you today. GOOD FOR YOU for getting on the horse!

The whole ""edge"" thing is really important...we're coaches, not cheerleaders...and I want to respond to it. But first I wanted to say hooray on getting an R and D email from you.

I am not provocative with my clients and I want to be. I like your idea of provocative statements instead of provocative questions.

The reason I am not provocative with my clients is a topic of discussion that I had with Thomas about a month ago. People seem to get their feelings hurt easily around me. This is something I've been fighting all my life. The conclusion that Thomas came to was that I was ''chocolate covered orange sherbet.'' In other words, my voice is quiet and soft and then BAM! I toss out a statement like ''You made a clear choice when you agreed to take on Debbie's work for the next 6 weeks'' and my client runs off crying and worse... gets mad at me.

Thomas said I need to let people know upfront that even though I'm quiet spoken, I will make bold statements when I feel it's necessary and get their permission to do so.

ALSO, I feel that my ''problem'' also has to do with voice inflection. After I talked with Thomas about my ''problem,'' I started trying to mimic Thomas' inflection to try to make a shift in my natural inflections... there's a big difference. I haven't mastered this yet. 


(And yes, I probably do have a few things to say about being provocative, and I may yet weigh in on that issue as well.)


Provocative "YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

I too am tired of all the ""smarmy"" coaching I hear on classes. That's judgmental, but it is my truth.
I am very edgy with my clients. I became edgy with them when I realized they had friends to hold their hands and families to support them in the more ""sympathetic"" senses that I believe you are talking about.
I also work with highly educated people who didn't take lightly to my calling them names by my ""leading"" questions.  I figure it this way Susan... people pay me good money to challenge them.
(not beat them or dominate them or lead them, but challenge them) 

I believe that calling people to what they themselves have said, or towards their own determined needs/values or desires is exactly what I'm in the business of doing. I cannot support people who cannot hear themselves, deny themselves or give excuses for themselves. They either are or are not ready
to move forward towards what they want. That choice is theirs to accept, decline or deny. 

Some famous person said, ""Clarity often comes from knowing what we don't want."" When using the edge, people ""react"" initially. A good thing. It's a ""HEY WHAT THE HECK??"" kinda reaction. Gets them thinking, moves them out of their ""comfortable discomfort."" Makes them take a stand to either stay
where they are or move. It offers clarity and quickly.

There is a difference between being a smart ass, judge, jury or ridiculer and a gracious edge user. 

I will miss Thomas, because he stepped on my toes EVERY time I talked to him. And when someone steps on your toes, exactly where you put them, it hurts and it smarts and it causes you to pay attention to where the heck you are showing up now doesn't it. 

It is still, a part of the process, not the entire process. Yet.. without the edge, color me a psycho-therapist or a spiritual healer or some thing other than a coach. Sometimes the truth of our values and needs stinks,
because we've buried it so deep in bullshit it takes the edge to help us dive in and fish it out. I'm not as surgical with the edge as I'd like to be. 

I can't wait to hear what other coaches have to say on this one. I often feel like I've been criticized as being too ""harsh"" with people. Yet my clients come in to coaching for a 3 month relationship, move out for one
month and then move back in for another 3. If they haven't gotten what they wanted in that time, or aren't well on the road to getting it - then they aren't ready to be coached by me. They can always come back to further something or work on something else - my goal is to not have a person who is coach dependent working with me.

I've babbled on abit here - yet that's my $.02!

GO YOU!!! I LOVE THAT YOU ARE TACKLING THE TOUGH STUFF HEAD ON!!!! 


What prevents me from being provocative sometimes is the 'fear' of being judgemental, overly opinionated even..?

I shall give it more thought now that you've mentioned it.

However in the meantime, using your example, I would suspect that the client is already aware that he/she had made a clear choice when agreeing to take on... (which I guess is judgmental of me!) I'd possibly fail to see the value in stating the obvious. Perhaps its about 'making the client feel worse' about something they have created as opposed to feeling positive whilst seeking a solution...? Focusing on the negative, the problem instead of the solution..?

I notice my 'edge' comes to life a little more as our relationship grows with time. Interesting. I shall spend some time noticing what's different here. I intend to change this and shall try out 'the edge' with my new clients sooner rather than later!

I have to say that getting too supportive - to the point where there is no correction - seems to be a sign that the ""coach"" is coaching more for their own gratification. Oh, I want my clients to ""like"" me and trust
me but to fail to correct is a real failure of trust. We have to be ""tough"" when it is appropriate. We're dealing with people's lives here and much like a therapist - our failure to confront and/or correct is a
form of malpractice. 

I do a training session called, ""Sometimes You Just Have To Be The Boss,"" which, in short, teaches leaders that if they establish a healthy relationship with those they oversee, then they can ""be the Boss"" when they have to and feel good about it. It goes the same for those of us who coach these leaders - sometimes we just have to be the boss.

What stops me from being provocative is fear of not being liked. It's some emotional baggage I'd like to transcend since it also carries over into my marketing and even the way I relate to my husband.

And a little bit of fear of getting fired by my client. Granted, I don't really want to work with someone who would fire me for saying something they don't like. But there is a little bit of that fear there too because I'm
still working on getting those financial reserves in place.

1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? 

First, I think that much of the coach training focuses on asking questions that don't lead the client. Yes, there are classes on being edgy and using laser coaching, but much emphasis is placed on asking questions, listening, being supportive and not leading the client. Provocative questions are one
of the kinds that are taught, but many coaches are uncomfortable or don't know how to be provocative without being sarcastic or without it being contrived.

Secondly, coaches who are afraid of losing their clients, are afraid to be too provocative. It's easier to play it safe and use a softer approach. I think coaches can only feel comfortable being edgy or provocative when they don't hold an attachment to holding on to the client. So yes, it's partially a lack of self confidence. Partially not knowing how to be provocative in a very real sense where it provokes the client into shifting
or thinking differently...maybe not even knowing what provocative is as opposed to confrontational.

I am actually quite edgy and provocative with my clients because I find that it works! But you also need to know which of your clients respond to this kind of statement or questioning, and which find it off putting.

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way?

I think I have always been that way. I can remember being a young teen on a playground/basketball court with friends and instead of playing we sat around and played word games using words as weapons...the more edgy and sarcastic the better. So perhaps not provocative...but certainly a good training ground.

With my clients, I like to tell it how I see it...and if I am not going to tell it...I am going to find the question that provokes them into seeing their truth on their own. Not always...I can be nurturing and supportive
too...but if I hear or sense that they are avoiding the truth...out comes the edge. I know I have been particularly effective when I hear that intake of breath that means I hit the bulls eye.

Having said that...I do believe that provocative can be taught. First by teaching how to understand what it means to provoke into thought, and then by teaching the languaging around it. And I think that the best way to do this is by first teaching what it means, and then having role playing to actually use it. More than once.

I am definitely not provocative enough with my clients. That I know for sure. Why, I'm not so clear on. One, I am a gentle person by nature. Two, I tend not to say things until I am sure. I guess I am just not an edgy person. But my coaching could use more edge.

Provocative is a strategy choice. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I believe the idea is to use the tools that work, achieve the desired intent on the part of the client. Because I am good (feel successful) with a particular strategy doesn't mean that it is a good/valuable strategy to employ. I agree that it is a valuable tool to have access to, but not necessarily the only tool to be used all or most of the time.

I have a partnership arrangement in my coaching business and my partner has coaching techniques that I don't and visa versa. Perhaps matching a coach to a client's needs is more important that trying to be something one isn't!

Anyway, thanks for the input and good luck with taking on the responsibility of the R & D team. I will be at the Vancouver program this next weekend. perhaps will see you there.

As to the edgy thing. Must have been transmitted you were thinking - as I had been doing a mental discussion on edgy just yesterday.

Was thinking there are two different things: edgy by nature, and edgy as a coaching skill. Having an edgy nature does not automatically mean having the coaching skill. 

I was thinking this way exactly because of what you said - my coaching often seems to be nothing more than a warm and fuzzy session. I am not edgy by nature, but felt sure that had nothing to do with the coaching skill. So how does one develop the effective skill of edge? 

For starters, using the word ""provocative"" as a synonym is very helpful. (takes the edge of edgy!) Helps to look at ""edgy"" as giving the space for the client to see a bigger picture. Being present during the session, and aware enough to notice any intuitive hits that fly by quickly is a large part of it. For me, the doubt comes from discerning whether the client really wants/needs to hear the hit. A lot of concern to give the space for the client to speak it out, find their own awakenings in their own time. 


Just today I could have been edgy. I could have interrupted and said, ""you know, Ophelia, what you're saying right now is a great confirmation of your growth and how far you've come. And that is great. I see the
change. Now, it is your choice to change again, or not. I don't hear you making that choice."" Instead I encouraged and confirmed and supported her in staying on her happy path - but not making any big
openings for leaps forward. 

This is helpful for me, because I can now see that our session today could have been bigger - and still encouraging and supportive. We didn't need a full 30 minutes of warm and fuzzy. 25 would have been
great, with 5 of ""and just think of the bigger possibilities"". 

I think there’s a balance to be struck here: the goal is not to be 100% edgy all the time, nor is it to be 100% loving/supportive all the time. What I don’t think should get lost in this “let’s get edgier” conversation
is that edge is a result of context: you have to use edge in judicious amounts for it to be effective. Overused, and clients get pissed/frustrated and feel like you’re being harsh with them…and bang, there goes your edge.
They want you to be a cheerleader for them too (they often don’t have anyone in their lives who supports them 100% - and being supported really opens them up to possibilities – one of the valued roles of a coach).

I do think that I’m edgy as a coach – but not 100% of the time. As a weight loss coach, an example of edgy is when I ask an obese client who “smokes to control her weight,” “How is it working for you?” rather than extolling the virtues of not smoking. They never fail to get the picture.

I guess the summary of my answer is that sometimes edgy works, and sometimes it doesn’t – and the trick is to know when. When I see someone lying to themselves, that’s ALWAYS my clue to be edgy.



This has always been a huge factor in my success as a coach. They say true  caring and support for someone is when you are courageous enough to tell them the truth (as you see it). I believe this is truly why a client seeks a coach - everyone else in their life is telling them what they want to hear. A professional coach should be telling them what they NEED to hear in the most professional, well-spoken, respectful way possible. I can see the hesitation if a coach doesn't really believe their client will appreciate this - could mean lost income, but if that is the type of client you are working with, the chance of progress is slim anyway.

I think this skill can be developed in coaches, but it is a value for the truth that you must ultimately hold which will propel you to conduct yourself in this manner with your clients. I will tell you this has been the single most important factor in my success and I hear gratitude all the time from my clients about how they appreciate the truth. Again, the key is saying it with respect - not judging it, just putting it out there as the truth.


One belief that helps me in this area is knowing that every person has capabilities way beyond their own expectations. By being provocative I'm helping them 'remember' that, which in a spiritual sense is helping them to reconnect in some small way. My provocative questions e.g. 'So why not do that right now?' are mind stretchers, pushing the boundaries of their self belief.

Rather than seeing this type of questioning as 'provocative', I see it as a way of releasing or unleashing the client's personal power. I can understand how other coaches might perceive it as aggressive though. I
think the key to a mind shift for these coaches is the belief that it's not about conflict, but about opening up and empowering the client.

It was great to get the R&D team memo from you. I applaud you for stepping up into the role, I can barely imagine how difficult the last couple of weeks must have been for you.


About the provocative question, I totally agree that a clear statement is the only way to go. A provocative question is great when it is truly a question, but so often they are statements in disguise. I think a direct provocative statement is sometimes a challenge to make, as a coach, because of the fear of causing offense, or being taken badly. I have also found that the occasions where I have gone for it, have tended to be the occasions which have really opened up an extra dimension, more profound and effective. I also think they certainly have their time and place, a whole call full of them would be exhausting! 

Provocative statements combined with intuition are dynamite! When I have caught myself thinking 'should I say this, is it too much', they are the times I know I have to say whatever I'm thinking. 

I am wondering now whether a small part of it may be the other person somehow recognising that I am outside of my normal zone of operation too, which makes them more willing to join me there. 

And, a key part of it is remaining light/neutral, almost playful with it; heavy provocative is soo unattractive!


What keeps from being edgy/strong:
Fear that the client won't like me
Fear that the client will feel hurt
Fear that the client will stop paying
Fear of losing rapport with the client

Ways that I am edgy/strong:
* Silence - It forces the client to think and keeps the ""pressure"" on them. When we jump in to fill the void of uncomfortable silence we let them avoid the deep thinking.
* Persistence - Often times the client will answer a question half ass or avoid the question (like politicians do) and they may be doing so unconsciously because they want to avoid something. When you keep asking you keep pushing the client to go deeper.
* Challenge Assumptions - Or at least point them out. Question them. Is that really true? What are you assuming here? Could it be ""XYZ"" instead?
* Wear A Velvet Glove - I had a client describe me as sledgehammer impact with pillow cushioning. I have a way of being gentle with my clients yet very strong. I get in their face, but I do it in a soft way. You can get
away with a lot more and be even more provocative.
* Detach From The Issue - If you are detached from the issue you're working on with the client, the client feels that and is less like to go into defensive mode.

Loved your R & D memo. Finally, someone willing to speak out. I am so overdone with questions, more questions, provocative questions, being peppered with questions (many overstep the boundaries of intimacy without asking permission) and it is an invasion of privacy to be bombarded with too many coaching questions!

I have always been one to speak what I see, hopefully in a respectful manner, and this is what drew folks to me. They knew they could count on me for the truth as I saw it and also validation. Once I started coaching I
scaled it back to be more 'coachlike and supportive' (in other words, I shrunk). I became wishy/washy and careful, wanting to endorse everything.
Now, I am finally coming back full circle, to the way I was, only with more skills and competencies.

Messaging is key. Too many questions...are, well, too many questions. As long as we are able to be edgy in a productive and non-offensive manner and do not think that we 'own the truth' for everyone, then just say it. We are told not to step over things... yet if we don't frame it a certain way it is not a coach approach... Clients pay for our input... that's why they hire us, not just so they can be asked lots of questions and do the searching.

I have decided to 'come out of the closet'. It is a strength and an asset to speak out. Just say it (it may be a good thing to give actual thought to what you are saying). I have I sticker on my bulletin board that says:
'Think for Yourself'.

Thank you for everything Susan. I know how close you and Thomas were and how much he respected you. You are a star and you are real! My heart goes out to you guys as you pick up the pieces.

May I make a suggestion?

I am heavily involved in the Georgia Coach Association, as VP Operations, and in various other coach type organizations etc. In my humble opinion, it would be a very good thing if you guys could give the Coachville members (and the coaching world) a heads up on your plans. I think a big part of that is - who is Coachville now? Certainly TL was Coachville before, (perception being 99% of reality), so now there is the perception - who is Coachville. 

I can appreciate the enormity of the situation, but if all possible I think many people would like to know who they are now 'following'. Would you agree that there has to be a 'leader'?
 

OK ... I share this experience for what it is worth with you. I put on my first workshop last weekend called ""The Spirit Of Writing,"" where I bridge spirituality into the sacred art of writing. I used the first part of the workshop as a meditative period of time ... with a twist. I had my mariachis (or maracas ... those ""cha-cha"" noise makers from Mexico) in hand with ""Universal Mind"" from The Doors playing on the CD player. One of the participants just blurted out after a few minutes, ""I can't meditate with that music! I wish you'd turn it off."" Now THAT was an unexpected emotional response ... but it did stir up her energy for the rest of the workshop. My point: I didn't do ""the usual"" soft, sweet meditative music and got a different result. The eight people who did show up in a rather small venue did get some ""bang for their buck (no pun intended, Dave)"" in that moment. 

 I believe it is when doing the ""edgy"" that awakens a person's deadness within. The ""blah-blah-blah"" of life, work and responsibilities gets shaken really hard. It's good to have the inner soul shaken some times ... too passive can be a bad thing some times.

Well ... that's my $1 worth (two cents won't cover my fee ... ha!). See, I also think a sense of humor helps in life, too.

provocative "I'm so glad you've asked this question and I'll be anxious to hear the responses. I'm NOT edgy and am not really sure why. I suspect that my ""nice southern lady"" upbringing leaned me that way and fear that a desire to be liked and approved, which I'd love to get rid of, gets in the way. For whatever reason, the edgy response isn't what pops up for me. I agree about the provocative questions; they seem manipulative and patronizing and contrived when they sound like they're from a cheat sheet list.

I think that developing an edge may consist not of techniques but of getting at what stops the truth that we sense in our gut from reaching our mouth. My guess: automatic filters in the brain that we can identify, find the source of, and then work to eliminate so we can begin to change. I know I'd like to and look forward to this line of inquiry.

"I am provocative naturally. When it is appreciated, I am a star. When someone bleeds, I am the enemy. I never intend to draw blood.

I think it is important to know how fragile the client is. Therapists get trained in this, but I haven't seen anything about it in coaching yet.

Sometimes I can take very direct feedback, which I personally prefer, and sometimes I don't take it very well. When I don't, it is usually because there is a hidden judgment.

If the coach is going to be provocative, I think they also have to have perfected the art of non-judgment, and most of us are not there, or not there all the time, and it is incumbent on us to know the difference.

I think you are Dave are interesting models of this. Dave comes across as the supportive type. You seem more laserlike. Although this is not the way our culture describes male and female differences, I think it is 
more accurate.

Men are kinder than women, when they are not doing their testosterone  thing. When women try to act like men, they lack the kindness.

Women are stronger than men. When men try to do the nurturing thing, they lack women's strength.

These innate differences have to play a part in this conversation.
 
I am not provocative with my clients and I want to be. I like your idea of provocative statements instead of provocative questions.

The reason I am not provocative with my clients is a topic of discussion that I had with Thomas about a month ago. People seem to get their feelings hurt easily around me. This is something I've been fighting all my life. The conclusion that Thomas came to was that I was ''chocolate covered orange sherbet.'' In other words, my voice is quiet and soft and then BAM! I toss out a statement like ''You made a clear choice when you agreed to take on Debbie's work for the next 6 weeks'' and my client runs off crying and worse... gets mad at me.

Thomas said I need to let people know upfront that even though I'm quiet spoken, I will make bold statements when I feel it's necessary and get their permission to do so.

ALSO, I feel that my ''problem'' also has to do with voice inflection. After I talked with Thomas about my ''problem,'' I started trying to mimic Thomas' inflection to try to make a shift in my natural inflections... there's a big difference. I haven't mastered this yet. 

Another thought. In my 25+ years of doing this coaching/consulting thing, I have found that human brains seem to be 'basically' wired in two different configurations: Strategically thinkers and tactical thinkers. Strategic are synthesizing, holistic, big picture types. Tactical are analytical, and tend to focus on the sub-sets that make up the big picture. A few very flexible people can do both. Thomas was such. BOTH types are necessary and valuable. Matching needs is the key. I am pre-dominantly a strategic thinker. Intuitively, I go for the big picture and frequently miss the smaller subsets. Unfortunately, our academic system ( I was in academe for 15 years until 'retiring' in 1971) is about 98% analytical and tactical.
So, we have an entire population that is skewed in the analytical and tactical direction. In my practice over the years, I have found that MOST Americans have no sense of a ""big picture"" of what their lives are about
(meaning and purpose) and therefore have no place to put (make sense of) the smaller subsets/incidences of their daily lives.

Check out ""PHOTOMOSAIC"" www.photomosaic.com This art form uses thousands of smaller (tactical) elements to create the larger (strategic) picture. Without the bigger picture, the tactical units can not be placed correctly to create the composition. Interesting concept and clients ""get it"" immediately when I show them the large photomosaic of ""YODA"" I have in my office. .


Provocative is a strategy choice. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I believe the idea is to use the tools that work, achieve the desired intent on the part of the client. Because I am good (feel successful) with a particular strategy doesn't mean that it is a good/valuable strategy to employ. I agree that it is a valuable tool to have access to, but not necessarily the only tool to be used all or most of the time.

I have a partnership arrangement in my coaching business and my partner has coaching techniques that I don't and visa versa. Perhaps matching a coach to a client's needs is more important that trying to be something one isn't!

Anyway, thanks for the input and good luck with taking on the responsibility of the R & D team. I will be at the Vancouver program this next weekend. perhaps will see you there.


On to the actual subject - I feel as if I have nothing to add as I don't even have my first client yet, but I've been reading some other coaching sites, and DANG they're fluffy! Gives everything a bad name, sorta like
the ""writers"" who just write Odes to their Toe Jam and think it's brilliant because it rhymes. Just because I've lived a somewhat interesting life and believe myself to be empathetic does NOT mean I can instantly coach. 

My page (in progress) at http://www.writing-studio.com/coaching.html IS deliberately sorta harsh. I definitely want to help the clients become better writers and people, but I don't feel the way to that level is to talk so much about that, especially not at the start. It's rather like my Anusara yoga class (http://www.quantumyoga.com/l2_featuredteacher.html), which *is* fundamentally about getting in synch with the universe and ""flowing from the heart."" But their _path_ is by using knowledge of anatomy and
physiology to ensure proper alignment in all poses, and then this can allow the energy to flow. They also are big on props (Anusara is a spin-off of Iyengar Yoga), which allows students to handle more complex/complete poses than their current bodystate would allow, and builds strength/flexibility in the _proper_ way of doing things, instead of an oversimplified, watered down pose which might build the strength/flexibility, but can't have that proper alignment, so there's no ""magic."" I think I see coaching as providing those props - allowing the magic at the earliest stages, yet also opening the client/student up
to more [something or other - can't think of a word] - than they would have thought possible. 

To continue this analogy - announcing we're doing headstands/changing their entire worldview - scares people off. Simplifying the poses unrecognizably /watering down the coaching to just encouraging phrases -
doesn't allow the client to really get the magic of yoga/coaching. Knowing the full range of Anusara yoga (I'm a total beginner by the way - only doing it for 6 months) and adaptations, but starting from simply standing still, including a bit more each week, manually readjusting the student as needed/ knowing the full range of the Coaching Proficiencies and whatnot, and introducing clients to what they need as they need it, whether they're aware of it or not -- this leads to the best benefits - ones the clients never even would have dreamed of attempting before getting started. 

(And I think I've just basically come up with a brochure I can use at my yoga hut to find clients while speaking their language.)

Ah yes - the questions at hand. These will be skewed towards my current job - I haven't formally coached yet.

I guess I am pretty ""edgy"" - I work as a writing tutor at an art college. I have NO art background - I'm used to demanding that students explain to me why they said XYX, or explain the assignment. I'm also better at asking ""the right questions"" when I'm more familiar with the student (and know their tendencies towards, say, rambling, my own flaw) the class/assignment ""You're interpreting - not describing. I have NO idea what this looks like. You'll get to do an analysis paper later in the term, so save those thoughts."" 


When am I not provocative? When I don't know where to begin. If the student's paper is chaos - no point to it, no grammatical clarity, no willingness to examine the difference between what's in _their_ head and the readers'. I tend to wimp out and just work on sentence-level issues then. If I'm not sure what the professor wants: are they grammarians, do they want slots filled in with information, do they want the student to truly explore something new? I also get wimpy when I don't know what the student can do. Especially with ESL and LD students, or ones required to visit by their professors, if they come by for just a drop-in session, I won't challenge their logic and structure of the essay as much, unless I've seen them a time or two. I might just detangle some run-ons, but not explain the full sentence boundary rules, how to check for their error patterns, or not show various ways to think about re-expressing the thoughts. 

So basically my lack of provocativeness comes from uncertainty, and I assume the converse is true.

Oh, if you're still reading - I was doing a search for my own coach and was very drawn to your site! With all the coachville work you do, do you still have space for another client? I admit that (until I get going with clients and whatnot) I'll have to be at the low end of your fees, but I LOVED your description of who you work with! Thanks!


am I provocative enough with my clients? Why or why not?

yes!
it strikes me that this is related to a conversation i just had with a friend. let's see if i can get straight thoughts on it.


1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients?

- coaches are a supportive bunch, and some supporters believe that means  making judgments as to whether some people can handle/are ready to be able  to take certain information/opinions/thoughts/truths. this is parental self-righteous rubbish.

- many people are afraid that if they speak what comes up for them they will be wrong/ridiculed/offend etc. they don't trust their inklings, and they don't rust their clients, and they don't trust that they can handle it 
if their clients reject what they say, potentially rejecting them (and thus losing a client and losing $).

- it seems (and this one i took a LONG time for me to get) that many people  don't seem to know that whatever they say/think, that is whatever i  say/think, IS JUST MY OPINION and that what i say/believe doesn't make it  truth or right or whatever. this is an important piece of the puzzle (my opinion!) and i admit that i used to think that i needed to preface everything i said with 'this is just my opinion, but..."" interestingly i don't do this any more as my come from seems to have changed. hmmm. not sure what that is.

- many people care what other people think of them. a great inhibitor.

- many people think they can hurt other people. i believe you can only hurt yourself. therefore they take responsibility for not hurting someone. i only take responsibility for being honest with/about myself (not always possible it seems, and that is ok too) ie not hurting myself.

- some people can't be bothered as they think it might rock the boat or bring up things they don't want to talk about or take them into realms they are uncomfortable with. they don't want to look at what it might bring up for them.

- some people may not want to do the internal work to be able to come from clean communication. i have found it takes a lot of courage to admit my vulnerabilities, to be ok with making mistakes, and to not take it 
personally if i am wrong.

- there is the paradox - it is all about me, and it is not anything about me!


2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way?

- it is who i am and in the past beat myself up about, the same as the selfishness issue. i am supremely selfish - i have a need to be honest in all situations, to not withhold anything as i believe i am then not being 
totally honest. and i hurt when i am not honest, i hurt my integrity. i am not honest with me. i don't know where this overarching value of honesty comes from. it just is for me.

- my coach, thomas and you and all of coachville as i see its principles has me now build on my strengths and leave behind my weaknesses. and this is a strength of mine. i have had to let go of 'nice' (which was never easy for me) - my oldest best friend just last week said i was 'cold and heartless' and i have been berated most of my life by family for being 'brutally honest'. i finally get that this is a gift for me to give. what i 
have learnt is to be brutally honest with me, and when i am coming from fear/anger/etc. that i am not in clear communication - unless i say so, and when i express this, and am authentic, people know it and respond likewise. it is magic! but i needed to learn clean communication and be self aware and observe in detachment before i could be this way - that is provocative without the brutal! and i am still learning that one.

- i believe in sharing everything, i have nothing to hide, i have no secrets, i don't believe in privacy.

- i am a wilder, that is, somewhere alone the line i didn't get appropriately socialized! i think this has something to do with always asking why, and not paying attention to hierarchy or authority. i have 
undying curiosity, am open minded, am fascinated by people and self-referenced (mostly, i am just learning how much i am a child of my genes).

 
PS i am one of those who believe i get paid to unconditionally love my clients. and with a strong presbytarian background i believe also in TOUGH LOVE :-)

Yesterday I sent a client ""The Client Coachability Index"" after she missed yet another appointment. In our email exchanges, I am confronting her stated priorities and whether they really are her top goals. She is being coached, in part, to find a high level corporate position so she and their daughter can join her husband in another city. My guess is that she's very reluctant to rejoin the corporate world and needs to see how she is acting this out to defeat herself. From here, I will work with her to resolve the conflict, should she choose to commit to regular coaching. I have also mentioned the possibility of therapy being more appropriate at this time.

My clients take the lead on most calls, but when I see an opportunity or need, I redirect them. This, also, demonstrates strength, though it is not necessarily edgy.


I guess the best way to honor Thomas is to continue his work!

Here are some thoughts:
1) Be constructive and positive when make provocative statements
2) People (and clients of course) do not want to be criticized
3) Adjust your the level and type of your provocation to your clients
4) Timing is critical
5) The stress level of your clients must be taken into consideration
6) Humor helps to tease and provoke...laughter softens the edge

Ah ha! One of the reasons I am not provocative is that I've been trying to ask provocative questions rather than make statements. Statements are much easier as you point out and cut the risk of insulting people. Being provocative is not natural for me and so something I must learn how to do. I resist being provocative because I have been challenged and insulted by provocative questions in the past...and this type of 'coaching' greatly held me back as I became defensive. It's hard to tell when a provocative question will be too much for a client, vs provocative statements which are much easier to frame in a neutral, factual way.

When I think about how to use provocative questions, I realize I can focus my attention completely on what I see as true, rather than focusing on how to say something (framing a question that will not insult). Focusing on framing the question starts me worrying about the state of mind of the client and holds me back/distracts me from saying what I honestly think. If I free myself to just making honest statements, I can avoid the 'middle man'/delay of converting my thinking into a question.

Also, a statement seems to flow into the client's own thinking...it is as if it came from themselves, or from nowhere, vs a question which clearly comes from someone else and demands a response.

Susan, I'm so glad to be able to continue to play in this way. I really want to support Coachville now.

Like you, I tend to 'call em as I see em'. Some clients love this, and others cower.

I think what you're looking at is basic human nature...In MY coaching experience thus far, I have found more male coaches effectively being provocative, because they're not as concerned about protecting the client's feelings, or concerned about whether the client will still like them if they're direct and candid.

I find in my clients and fellow coaches, many women are still fearful of offending someone if she speaks the truth...

And then, I wonder how much of it is nature vs. nurture. I happen to be a very confident and direct communicator, something that comes naturally, and was also heavily supported in my childhood
by parents who always encouraged me to speak my mind and defend my views.

Hope this is helpful.
I LOVE your energy, your style, and your being, and would be happy to chat with you live to brainstorm about this further. If you think there's value in this, when in the next week might be a good time for us to have a telephone exchange?

Umm, provocative is an interesting one..

Q 1:So what stops a coach being provocative? 

For some, it's not in their nature; they don't like what they perceive as confrontation. They don't like blunt and they are generally not upfront. It's part of the fight or flight personality and, in my experience, I don't think most people change this fundamental characteristic. As well, I think there's something here in the distinction between counseling and coaching. I don't know but I suspect many people come to coaching from a counseling background and they may challenge the provocative approach. It would be interesting to find out.

Also, I think this has a lot to do with client/ coach 'fit'. By nature I'm direct, open and sometimes provocative. I generally tell clients upfront that part of my role is to challenge their thinking. 

The danger is that a 'victim/poor me' client can't see the opportunity to challenge their thinking because they are feeling 'wounded'. I honestly don't know the answer because I don't work well with clients who consistently think this way. Years ago I remember having a cleaning lady who's favourite expression was, ""Isn't it terrible Mrs Barrett; but what can I do."" It wasn't a question, it was a statement! (By the way, what bothered me most is that she wouldn't call me Liz)

Maybe the question for we provokateurs is one of being judgmental.. ""When I'm being provocative, am I responding or reacting to my frustrations with the clients attitude?"" 

I don't know the full context of the example you gave but a useful approach might be to say something like, 'Are you saying you wish you hadn't offered?...then see if there's a pattern. The goal would be for the client to recognise the pattern first, take responsibility, and then develop strategies to say 'no'.



I DO want to Play for many reasons (that are not important to share for right now). :-)

We do not know each other...and even tho' I saw you, Thomas and Dave in Phila in October (I travel lots and I think it was Oct), I did not chat with you or Thomas. :-(

(My husband and I did take Dave to the airport and what a gift to have him captive in our car for an hour!!!) :-)

As for this project, I have been on the R & D Team for a few months and this project really gets my juices flowing!!!

And thus...my first contribution!!!
I am glad to hear your point of view on this topic!
I agree with you 100% that most coaches are too supportive to be effective.

You inquired:
So my question to you is twofold.

 1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their > clients? 

It is my belief that most people have an uncontrollable desire to be liked...and they will do anything...including holding back...in an effort to be liked.

And yes...it creates a less than effective coaching relationship!

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can  you share how you came to be that way? Were you provocative in general and just carried it over to coaching? If so, how have you taken this ability
 further or refined it? Or is this a learned skill that is newly acquired for
you? What would help you to take a leap in growth here?

One thing that I have learned from Teresa Romain (an AbundanceCoach) is what she calls the 5 Agreements. These Agreements are instrumental in laying the foundation of any coaching relationship.
I can describe them in depth, (if you request), but I LOVE the fifth one, which is:

Take100% Responsibility.

That means, No judgment....but also, No Blame, No Excuses, No whining! Taking 100% Responsibility.
This agreement is to be complied with, by both parties!
Besides...if it's not YOUR responsibility...who's is it???
Sometimes, we need to remind our clients that they are responsible for their life...and that's a good thing!
Actually, that's a GREAT thing!!!
The first step is to ask them...""So, What is it that you WANT?""
(The ""establishing what they really, really want"" is where some great coaching comes in, since most
people don't know...or are afraid to admit...for fear of failure...what they want)!
""And what is the next step you could take in getting what you WANT?""

Just trying to see better where the problem lies, and from there, will know where to take this project.
Is there anything else I should know regarding being provocative?
Basically, ask yourself, as a coach, am I provocative enough with my clients? Why or why not? and send me your answer.
I'm going to take the fact that you brought this up...as a sign that I should stop holding back!!!
I agree that a lot of the questions...are manipulative! And thank you for confirming what my gut has been saying all along! Be TRUE to me...and the other person!!!
 
I was sharing with a friend on the 12th about how sad I was that Thomas had left us...and she said to me:

""Pat, is there a possibility that Thomas may provide more inspiration to you...now that he is gone...than he had before!""

It was like a bolt of lightning!!! I hung up the phone and started opening pages of his stuff (from CoachU and Coachville) and the pieces started falling into place!

And Susan, I really, really appreciate the heartfelt shares you have sent out to the COACHV-L@hslc.org group! It has helped us all!!!

I am a CTI trained coach, and I would say that the last course of their curriculum, ""In the Bones"", is exactly about what you're talking about--being edgy with the clients. So I have some insights from having
participated in that course (and i guess CTI should be credited with these...)

The main one is: what are coaches making more important than their clients? Is it politeness, is it the coaching relationship itself, is it their image, the client's comfort (or their own)? becoming aware of what that is can be very useful in itself. When I coach, I think i gotta be willing to get ""fired"" at any point in the conversation (as long as it's for the client's sake).

The other thing that can make coaches wimpy, is a focus on using the techniques they've learned, and as a consequence ignoring what they really feel like saying/doing in the moment. They forget what they bring as
individuals to the table that is beyond the coaching techniques. Besides, if you are coaching several times a day, and you are not being provocative/edgy you may be in danger of putting yourself to sleep.

Speaking for myself, sometimes I feel afraid of the consequences of speaking my intuition. Sometimes I just don't perceive what is going on, or have trouble articulating it. That's what can take the edge off. Other times, I may just not be at my best.

I like provocative, and find the clients move along better when I ask a lot of questions. I look forward to seeing more ideas.

ok you're talking provocative,

first, I think its fear of rejection. Client says, the h. with you, I don't  need this, it could also be timing (may not be the right time), not enough trust yet, alliance is poor

So I let people know ahead of time (at the intake), of how I may react to some of their content....I may throw in a few provocative comments depending on the situation.

I'm fairly new to coaching, and no I wasn't provocative before, I figure it's part of my job...


Coaches are afraid of losing clients, are afraid of alienating clients. They work so hard to snag clients and get into the business of being supportive and inspiring and are simply afraid to be confrontive (even in a positive sense).

Thomas often caught me completely off guard by being confrontive (charge neutral, but confrontive just the same) when I would say something on the phone. Yet Thomas was a great coach. And his ""confrontive"" statements or questions often stuck with me for weeks. So I *can* see the value in it. But it did make me uncomfortable.

Coaches understand that they need to push clients beyond the client's comfort zone, but I don't think they get that they need the client to be uncomfortable with statements they make. I am having a bit of a hard time with it, even as I can see its extreme value and necessity.
 

Provocative
I have worked as an experiential educator for 20 years + Using wilderness settings (white water rafting, rock climbing, ropes courses) we ""Create an artificial environment, with very real emotions = this is the catalyst for growth"" After every activity there would be a debriefing The facilitators job is to notice what happened just underneath the surface of the interactions / actions during the activity Now the facilitator has to ask the edgy questions. These are the most powerful questions

What happened there?
What was that about?
Did you notice that?... (these are the more painful but deep statements like you are talking about Susan)
Point out things that people are really trying to avoid the abject voice of reality smacking in the face like a cold Chicago wind

When I am provocative with my clients (which is not as often as I wish I were), there are indeed many silences in which I ""hear"" AH-HA. For me this is what coaching is truly all about. What keeps me away from that edge? Fear. I'm afraid my client won't like me, that what I have to say is stupid or self-righteous, or presumptuous, or egotistical...blah, blah, blah.

How I am working on getting over this? Practice. Practice, commitment and perseverance to my belief in a higher ideal. Also, doing my own ""work."" That's very important, too.

You're right on. All this pussyfooting around and nicey nice, doesn't benefit anyone, not the coach or the client, and in the long run the client won't respect you for it. They are hiring a coach for the coaching, not for ""Oh you are absolutely wonderful"", they can find some phoney submissive, false friend for that garbage.

They need to hear what they don't want to hear, and they will be glad to hear it.

Being a Proud Canadian and living in an overboard politically correct at the expense of being correct and no one is ever responsible for their actions society, is a gag me with a spoon mentally that doesn't benefit anyone.

State the facts, the facts speak for themselves.
 
I have become substantially more edgy since I've begun coaching. Here are the factors that I think contribute (and that held me back before):
1) cleaning up my own stuff
2) Being able to see someone's actions without judgment, so I make make bold statements without worrying about putting a charge on them. To do this, I had to first get clear on personal responsibility, and
who's responsible for what.
3) being present. When I'm not fully with the client, I can't seem to find the statement that hits the nail on the head. Yes, I have LEARNED to be provocative with clients, and it works" "In my early days I did not know how to be edgy nor provocative.

Then I discovered The Three ""Secrets"" Of Coaching FOR ME.

Once I discovered that I knew the Secrets, and that the client did not, I became empowered to
be bold, honest, provocative, honest, edgy.

I learned how to challenge the client's belief's.... their ""should's and ought's"".
I learned how to ask questions that they COULD NOT ANSWER, without making them feel inadequate or belittled.
I learned how to take charge of the situation.
Great coaches have typically been great leaders.
Clients I have worked with have been silently begging to be lead.

My Three ""Secrets"" Of Coaching

1. Give the client permission to reject me and my services, let them know that I may not be right for them.
2. Give them their Four Coaching Options:
A. Do nothing.
B. Coach yourself through books and tapes.
C. Go into therapy if they need to repair their inner self.
D. Work with me as a coach if they are ready to reach bigger goals.
3. Have them spell out their ""Ultimate Scenario"" for their goal-reaching, coaching experience. Moreover,
I want the client to REALLY sell ME on why I should take them on as a client.

I want to hear lots and lots of reasons why we could work together well as a team. I want hours of details.
A little begging perhaps.
The point is to get the client to spell out everything possible that they want to get out of our relationship so that I don't have to spend my time guessing where we will go.
I want to know the destination.

This process puts an edge on the process from the beginning.
Accountability helps keep us on track as we move forward.

You really struck a nerve with me on this topic.
I can't stand to hear an attitude of ""Golly, I'll do whatever you want"" from other coaches, yet I hear it far too often.
That attitude does not embody leadership.
Our clients beg us to be strong leaders.

I have really strong belief that if the coach is even a ""itsy bitsy"" off or unclear on two things, they cannot be effectively provocative
1. What does the coach really believe and want their role to be? I.a. how much excitement/passion does that role carry for them
and
2 how much ""insight"" and ""where to go next"" does the coach possess if they have these two they will be graciously effective

PS
I couldn't agree more with you comment that many ""provocative questions a shade short of being manipulative

1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? Perhaps, ""the customer is always right,"" is a very dangerous philosophy for those of us in the field. They are paying the bills and we do want
to keep them happy - but we also have to hold to some pretty clear truths and our commitment to help them grow. Growing involves pain and stress and no one likes it - but we, as very personal change agents, have to be a source of pain and stress. We guide it - direct it, we even package it as prettily as we can but we still have to dish it out. It is a measure of our courage and faithfulness as leaders/coaches. Being provocative is messy - no one really likes messiness. It's difficult and sometimes dangerous. It's also hard - perhaps the hardest part of what we do. I think we just naturally avoid it - or dance around it. But when it comes down to the rubber meeting the road we HAVE to do it. I've found that being up front with my clients about this part of the relationship is critical. I let them know that I'm there to make them feel good only when they should feel good and if they need to recognize their failure or guilt, then I'm there to help them do that to. So it comes as no shock to them when I am provocative (actually confrontational is a better word).

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way? 
I came to coaching through law enforcement work and developed my processes while leading two groups, five days a week, at a local Mental Health facility. As a cop I had to learn to be firm and yet not humiliate. As a Psycho-Educator I had to learn to confront each individual patient in a way that the patient could receive it. A mentor once gave me a phrase that has served me very very well in being provocative/confrontational. He worked for the Joint Chiefs during WWII and (as a civilian) he had to confront very high ranking officers in all branches of the military. The phrase, which was on a plaque on his desk, is, ""Kill 'em with kindness, but kill 'em"" I've found that as I prepare for a provocative/confrontational meeting this motto serves me well.
I believe it is both a skill and an art that we have to develop. In developing the skills and the are we will make mistakes. We have to be prepared to eat those mistakes and learn from them. Doing this with a client is a great teaching tool. When they see us admitting a mistake and we share what we have learned from it then they are encouraged to not be afraid to do the same.


#1: Coaches may avoid being provocative because they are more concerned with being liked or being nice. In other words, a coach has an unmet need they are trying (unconsciously, in all likelihood) to get met and
is bringing that into the client/coach dynamic. Get your needs met outside of your work so you can be a clear presence with your clients.

#2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way? Were you provocative in general and just carried it over to coaching? If so, how have you taken this ability
further or refined it? Or is this a learned skill that is newly acquired for you? What would help you to take a leap in growth here?  When I realized being ""loving"" was not helping my clients to grow and shift I began to question if I was really being loving or licking their wounds. I can create a safe and loving space to be a container for the provocative statements. Truly being loving, in this instance, is being able to hold a space for somebody until they can hold the space for themselves--not avoiding discomfort. I came to be provocative when I started to trust my ""hits"" or instinct about a situation and then take a deep breath and go inward and disconnect my attachment/need from the observation then share it with my client cleanly. It takes practice and creating room for oneself to be a little clumsy until you find your rhythm with it is important--unless you're just naturally edgy :)

Another thing that held me back initially is that my early clients probably wouldn't respond well to an edge. I had attracted clients who wanted a kind and gentle coach, because I believed that coaching was about supporting and mothering the client. As I became more edgy, these people dropped away.

I have become substantially more edgy since I've begun coaching. Here are the factors that I think contribute (and that held me back before):
1) cleaning up my own stuff
2) Being able to see someone's actions without judgment, so I make bold statements without worrying about putting a charge on them. To do this, I had to first get clear on personal responsibility, and
who's responsible for what.
3) being present. When I'm not fully with the client, I can't seem to find the statement that hits the nail on the head.
 
First of all - I admire you very much - going on strongly after Thomas's death - he would love to see your letter to the R&D team today.

When people full of life - joy - life quality and positiveness die, it suddenly becomes so quiet in the world....... 

However, I understand you and your team also with Dave are doing a fantastic job to catch up the mission you already had started on ......

I had my son with me to London, and Thomas wanted to come and visit us on the island way out in the North Seaaa, as we could go flyfishing together he said. My son got also the pleasure to greet him, and he became also very sad that such a capacity of a man died. 

We have to go on, though. I agree one hundred percent on how important it is to be honest and act provocative to the clients. I myself have a tendency to wrap the problem up, instead of unwrapping them... and play a lot with questions how to do that. I will continue doing that.

Thank you so much for all the work you do, and all the best to Dave as well!


I am provocative by nature, so it is a part of me and I have carried it over into my coaching. I have had to temper my provocative nature over the years though, because I have found many simply don't want to hear the truth.

One thing I have done to refine it is that I have tempered my tone and adjusted my wording to fit the personality of the client.

This is something I think takes time and practice. My limited experience with fellow coaches and coach trainees is that many of them entered coaching with the ""I want to make the world a better place"" mentality. While I respect that, I don't think we make the world a better place by placating others, enabling them in their denial of personal responsibility, or by reassuring them that ""attitude is everything."" 


I don't disagree that attitude is a tremendous part of how we respond to situations in life, but many clients especially those that are new to coaching, and new coaches as well, do not take the time to understand what their attitude about things actually is. They assume if they are always sunny, smiling, and happy happy that they have the right attitude.


I think it is necessary to probe clients about how they have reacted to similar situations, how they respond when ""pushed"" by someone, what they know or believe their ""buttons"" to be. There are some for whom a gentle touch is strengthening, but I don't think real growth comes from being coddled. There are some who need, and want, to have their  buttons pushed. It is what it takes to get them to take action and move
forward. I am that kind of person.

Here's an example based on an experience I had a few days ago.

Recently a friend of mine and I were discussing a delicate situation where I asked for his counsel. The issue was whether to divulge to a business that someone they were about to hire for a position was not qualified for the position. The details are very complicated but what it came down to was I had just taken over a project for a client who had worked with this person, they'd wasted thousands of dollars and months of time. One of my fields of expertise is search engine optimization of websites. My client has a local hotel reservations company.

The other business that was about to contract with the ""unqualified"" person is a local tourism marketing group. If this person failed them in the same way that he'd failed my client, the results could be devastating for the city; New Orleans lives and dies on tourism. The person is well known and respected for producing superb multi-media presentations and video productions, but SEOS is not his forte. New Orleans likes to celebrate hometown heroes, but they often fail to realize one can be heroic at one thing and not even average at another. They just don't realize that there's a much bigger world than the city they've all grown up
in, most have never been farther away than the state line of Mississippi. 

The complication is that my connections to my clients is not public, I work at a very low profile in this city with intent to do so, and New Orleans is a very small town in all the worst ways. My power to achieve things and get information comes from both my skills and my invisibility. 

Favoritism, nepotism, etc. are rampant here so you never know, who is connected to whom and on whose toes you might step if you speak up about someone or something you see that is wrong.

So, to get to the point of being provocative, my friend's counsel was, ""Why does everyone have such a problem being HONEST?"" 

My friend knows that I second guess myself because I think I am too unforgiving and tough sometimes. He knew I was ignoring my own voice and by pushing my ""integrity"" button he elicited action from me.

To him that was all there was too it. I had information that was important, I was not trying to improve my own position by suggesting someone else was unqualified, I was not trying to steal business from anyone, and what I knew was of value. So what if I stepped on toes, burned bridges, and made a few enemies. My friend grew up here. He's an insider. I did not grow up here and although I've been a ""local"" for 15 years, I'm not exactly one of their own. But still the bottom line is I am good at what I do; I know what a job well done looks like. I have results to prove I am knowledgeable in my field. I am well respected by almost everyone who meets me even casually. I had nothing to fear by simply being honest.

My friend's answer was provocative. It hit me in a soft spot, but that poke moved me to take action.

I am waiting for the possible fall out of the actions, but ultimately now that I have taken action I feel empowered. I feel sure now that my friend provoked me to take action with his provocative words that I should have followed my gut in the first place and shared what I knew immediately. The time I wasted wondering if I should or shouldn't speak up, and second guessing my own voice was lost. Nothing was gained. 

I think the key to provoking is to know just how much to spin the ball. It's a skill and must be refined. It must also be adjusted to the needs of an individual client, like all coaching tools. I think it would also be of
value to have coaches, especially new ones to ask their clients to review their coaching. Have them list the things in each session for a few weeks that moved them most to take action or make changes. It could be a good gauge for the coach of how much spin is too much spin, and might prove valuable for coaches in training to review transcripts and then review the clients ""review"" of the session.

I also wanted to share that every time I open an email from CoachVille and see T looking down on me, I am reassured and inspired to keep his work and my own going. Thank you and the rest of T's team for keeping him there to watch over us all, and for keeping his work alive for us all. 

this is fantastic! what a brilliant topic to kick the r&d team into action again. you are so right about the value from provocative statements versus manipulative questions - crystallising the feeling for me.

i think of myself as fairly provocative and have always been struck by that aspect of Thomas - I love edgy.

Some of my favourites is:

""Whoah! Thats a fairly large assumption.""

""Do you absolutely know that for a fact?""

""So, true for you, but not for many other people"".

My coach Chris Barrow (provocative in the extreme) has a good one. He says ""and your point is?"" particularly when you are waffling or fudging.


for me, being provocative is a natural outgrowth of being in the moment. if something comes up for me, i blurt it. i'm not always sure where it comes from - but i've trained myself to NOT sit on it (as we do in social circumstances). if a client is put off by it, i'm the wrong coach for her/him. 

Comment re provocative question versus provocative statement: Obviously, if the coach knows that the
client took on Debbie's work, then a reminder (statement) is very appropriate and brings the focus of responsibility back to the client's decision. If, however, the coach is not aware of this, then I believe that an appropriate question to cause the client to face the responsibility of his/her own choices, would run along the lines of, ""Did you offer to do this extra work?"" followed, perhaps by ""Why did you offer to do the extra work?""  The whole point being to aid the client to set his/her own agenda, and not to accept the responsibility for doing something that someone else thinks is a good idea. Good to be kind, but
if the reason for doing it is because they cannot say ""no"", they will resent the extra work and it
reinforces their tendency to be a ""people pleaser"".

Question 1
As coaches, we fail our clients if we are not able to risk offending them. If the client wants a soft answer, he/she could go to a friend who would allow them to talk it over with them, patting them on the back with soothing comments. So, in my opinion, if a coach lacks the insight to enable his/her client to personal growth, then more expertise and training would be beneficial. If, however, the coach is merely afraid to speak the truth in love, then that coach needs to rethink his/her reason for being in the industry.

Question 2
Being somewhat objective in approach, I have never believed that real help is given by agreeing with a client, when they would be better served by being challenged. Isn't that what it's all about?  Agree, by all means, when that is appropriate, but a suitably framed question will cut through all the pretence and will succeed in empowering the client. To this end, I am developing the art of using empowering questions (or statements, so long as they are not presumptive) that help the client to become properly centred, training them to be
proactive and to establish healthy personal boundaries and good negotiation skills.

This is a really interesting subject for me. My only difficulty with being provocative is being careful not to be too provocative. How did I develop this 'talent'? Growing up in an alcoholic family, where the only acceptable way to express anger was sarcasm really helped. (Rocky and Bullwinkle, and Bugs Bunny helped also. Being a member of the 'ironic generation' gave me an audience) Sarcasm can be funny, but it's also hurtful and I over the years I let it go. Tons of therapy helped. The interesting thing, is I know my 'tell it like it is' personality was something people really valued about me. 
Fast forward to me as a coach practicing the 15 proficiencies. After years of trying to be truthful without hurting peoples feelings, I've learned that the key distinction is hurt vs harm. Going to the dentist might hurt, but it doesn't harm you, in fact it helps you. A diabetic eating candy doesn't hurt, but he is being harmed. Recently, I was practicing using proficiency #1 with a client and she began tearing up. I quickly pulled back and focused more on #15. By the end of the session she had something to work on for the week. The following week she told me that that was the most valuable session she had had with me, yet! ""Provocative' works as long as we don't damage the client in the process. I think both provocative questions and statements can work as long as they open gates to new territories and are not sarcastic or patronizing.


I think you are tackling a subject that really needs work. My only real experience with the kind of coach you describe (lovey-dovey rather than edge) has been in CCUI teleclasses.

I consider myself to have more of an edge.

As I see it, for the most part it is an issue of self-confidence on the part of the coach - and most coaches don't have enough, just like most people don't have enough. And I am not sure an e-book can fix this.

I also wonder if many coaches have a need for their clients to need them. Perhaps this, if 'truth told' to the right coaches at the right time COULD make an impact as they learn to get that need filled elsewhere. Or, to become less needy.

Personally, studying SALES has made me a better coach, and studying coaching has made me a more effective sales person. I highly recommend that all coaches intensively study sales.

A good place to start is Tom Hopkins. He has a single audio tape called ""Mastering the Art of Selling."" I've listened to it nearly 50 times over the last few years. After a while you start thinking a certain way.


i think the problem with the lack of provocativeness/power in coaching isn't that coaches aren't being direct enough in their questions, it's that they aren't matching the behavior style of the client, or willing to try on
different styles to see what results the client gets. in the example you gave in the memo, example #1 is a high D (DiSC) type of statement. wouldn't work for me at all to have a coach use it. (granted, it's hard to hear tone in the written word, so there is a gap for misunderstanding - but that's important to consider when you are doing text-based training)

i suspect most coaches are high I's, rather than d's, so they will tend to lead with an i-style question/statement. they need to have more options and be able to assess the client's style in that particular environment so they can be appropriately and effectively provocative.

i recommend you blend in some behavioral assessment/response info with your explanation and training of provocative. coaches have to have access to all styles in order to be effective leading their clients. clients will have a preferred style, one they go to in times of stress, and others they are able to utilize more fully at other times. if you need help fleshing this out i can help with it. (alicia smith would also be outstanding at helping flesh this out.)

take a look at the styles of the people who are leading the critiques and the push to provocative. are they trying to get us to be a certain kind of provocative, or are they taking into consideration the different
behavioral/learning styles in being EFFECTIVELY provocative?

to me example #1 actually felt judgmental and accusatory. yes, it was a factual statement, but for a high i client, you have just alienated that client and made them feel shamed. not so conducive to the coaching
relationship. in fact, for an i client, example number 1 puts them on the defensive more than example #2.
example #2, on the other hand, is more i, but possibly also weak even for an i client.

for me a more provocative approach would be:
""you agreed to take on more work while Debbie was out, right? so what's changed? what's up with that?""
then, depending on the client's agenda and readiness, i would take it deeper to the underlying issue and pattern - what led to that decision? where else in your life does this show up? what are the consequences of that? what are the benefits you are getting from remaining this way?

none of that is accusatory, but it does actually get the client to examine the source of their frustration, not just the symptom. that's provocative and gets at what the client is actually wanting, but in a way that honors their humanity, relishes truth, shares what's there, and involves navigating via curiosity rather than smacking them in the head.

i agree that many coaches are just having nice chats - rather disappointing to me. but i do not believe the answer is in making all coaches use high d responses to get their client's attention. instead, it is in using a range of provocative responses utilizing all the behavioral styles, kind of like having your tool belt with you while you work.


I started my three year vision and boy  was this an eye opener! I took the day off work with XXXXX (my husband - Sales Director for my other company DP) and we thrashed out exactly how we felt, where we wanted to be etc in all areas of our life both  personal and professional. I was amazed what came out of this day. The bottom line is that neither one of us wants to be involved as much in DP in the next few years - amazing seeing as though I have had it now for 12 years and always thought I would pass it on to the children! I  have talked to my accountant about an exit route and also had a preliminary discussion last night with a prospective purchaser - during this meeting had very mixed feelings as I felt I was selling out 'my' company. I am  about to sign the confidentiality documents that takes it to the next stage 

- but I am frightened - really frightened. Have you any suggestions? I can empathise with your sleepless nights - I am there at the minute. Help.""

My reply:

Permission to do some very direct coaching please?
Your business is an entity, not a child. You did not birth it, it will never love you, feed you or come to your funeral.
If it's no longer part of your passion (and that's what you said) and you can sell it - then sell it.
You can then focus on working in your professional passion.

And the client replied this morning:

Thank you for that very direct coaching. It is probably what I needed -I am probably being emotional about it rather than seeing it as a way forward  to concentrate on DD (my other company) - by the way if the sale of DP goes ahead it will give me the capital I would need to concentrate on rapid growth with DD without any outside help. I will keep you posted.""

So I suppose the question is, what did the coach do?

My answer - the coach cut through the emotional crap and asked the client to think like a businesswoman.
 

My making more provocative statements is a more recent development in my coaching, I didn't start out being that way...so maybe what helps me might be useful to some other coaches, as well.

When I hesitate to be that straight forward - and I used to hesitate nearly all the time, it was for two reasons. First, it does take a while to notice and become clear about what is emerging in the back of my mind.
But that is minor, compared to the second reason: fear. Fear of being wrong, hurting feelings, saying something that might be rejected, fear of being fired. 

Yet, the more direct I am with my clients, the more they appreciate it and the more value they get out of my coaching. To protect myself, and to help them be resourceful when they hear what I have to say, I used to
create a context, first, usually with a single statement. Such as, ""I'm going to say something tough, now...something tough for you to consider really, really deeply."" Or, ""I'm going to go out on a limb, now"".

One of my clients pointed out to me that my best stuff comes when I say I'm ""going out on a limb""...and to hurry up and not hold back. With time, I've come to trust this and learn that it's true.

Since my clients already know and trust that even if I make a mistake or if they disagree, they know I have their best interest at heart...a context is already created.


It's fear that holds me back, fear, pure and simple. That's a shame, too...because my greatest value as a coach often comes when I don't let that fear stand in the way.

It wasn't a coaching fear that held me back so much, though that is a factor. It was based on how I lived. Not speaking up, not daring, not being direct enough -- was a personal issue with me, motivated by reasons
that are no longer truly relevant in my life.


I believe that it is related to Personal Foundation issues...such as having standards, integrity, healthy boundaries. Since I expect that a lot of other people have similar issues, and are too often afraid, an
addition to Personal Foundation, or something very much like that...is needed by many of us. Something like this, well done, tested and refined...could be a HUGE help to MANY of us, first as human beings, and
secondly as coaches.

I don't think I am unusual, in having been paying too much attention to my fears rather than to what is called for to be said or done.

Being run by fears and hesitation is a lousy way to live. Tools that help coaches (and clients) deal MUCH better with this area would be a huge boon. Items such as getting additional support while we practice
new approaches, etc., could be quite helpful.

What do you think, on reading this? What do you recognize? What's missing? What can be added, or said...that might be useful or make a difference?

What might you say to me, if you were coaching me, and you had something to say? (Whatever it is might be mighty useful not only to me, but to many others, as well. I expect that to be the case. So please, dig in
and speak up, yourself, too!)


Now on to the question. My gut first went to the generational  difference between forty/fifty something's and twenty/thirty  something's. My experience with older coaches is that being  direct equals being rude. Even when it is brought to the consciousness, it is so engrained from our culture and upbringing, that it is hard to move away from.

So many of us (still) are raised to value diplomacy, and it gets confused with doing what's best for the client in order to move them forward. Diplomacy does not have to mean wimpy.

I remember reading on a transcript from a teleclass where Thomas said ""What do you mean by that?"" and I cringed. I had the emphasis on the wrong words, and when I heard the real audio, it was so neutral I was stunned. The emphasis was on ""what"". How subtly provocative THAT was!

I believe it's about being more honest more quickly...rather than aiming to be provocative.

Even if it means continuing the conversation again, as I'm doing now. Doing so as quickly as skillfully possible.

Choosing to live with integrity, honesty, and a standard of really saying it all...rather than allowing oneself to be habitually held back by personal and professional fears.


It's not really about being provocative, it's about honesty, and speed in recognizing and speaking up about the truth. Doing so quickly. Rather than living by fear. It's about, in the end, how we live and work. Being provocative is a side effect, sometimes...and isn't a great thing to aim for.

When you do this well..what are your motives? Why and how do you do it?

Know anyone else who does this extremely well, and often? How and why do they do it? Let's find out how experts do this...and then use the examples of those who are best to enlighten and update the rest of us
about this?


1. I believe those who Coach over the phone are hesitant to be provocative for 3 reasons (not necessarily ones they’re aware of). First because they can’t gauge their body language and the way they react to a provocative statement. 2, because they’re afraid of pissing their clients off (excuse the bluntness but that’s the way I see it) and don’t want to be fired, so even as a Coach they pussy foot around their clients too much. And 3, because many Coaches allow their clients to be accountable to them and, in that dynamic it’s harder to be provocative because you’re held responsible.

2. I approach it this way. I think it’s easier when I Shadow Coach a client because I’m there when it happens and can “deal with it” immediately. I tell them from the get go that I’m going to be brutal….tell them with a smile on my face. And then when I do say something that pushes a button or two I look at them and say “Told ya I was going to be brutal! The only way you’ll decide to change is if you get angry enough” (or something to that effect). Complacency never brought about change. I tell them I’m not there to be nice or for them to be accountable to me. I’m there to facilitate changes they’ve decided to or desired to make.


1. I don't like confrontation. Telling someone something that I believe they may not want to hear scares me. I ""numb"" out sometimes when I feel too confrontive. It's actually that I get so overwhelmed with feelings that I seem to just shut down and ""lose my words.""

2. Fear that if I say things the client doesn't like they'll fire me (though I myself have never fired a therapist, mentor, or coach if they confronted me in a clean way). To me, clean confrontation gives the messages: they respect me, believe I'm capable of processing the truth (don't try to protect me), care about me (takes effort, why bother if you don't care?). In some ways it elevates the relationship.

3. It can be hard for me to come from a clean place. This is a coming from the insides thing. Coming from a clean place may be a topic well addressed by Absence of You and School of Personal Development. I have a boatload of old fears, prejudices, assumptions, etc. I'm addressing them but the going can seem slow sometimes. sometimes it's easier to be ""nice and supportive"" than risk spewing on a client.

4. From a more tactical view, it takes some practice to make a provocative statement using clean communication. There are words and phrases that can sound loaded and provoke an emotional reaction rather than a response. Having said that, perhaps provoking an emotional reaction is ok. A coach can re-state themselves in a less loaded manner. Point is, I want my clients responding, not turning into seething little cauldrons of fear, anger, and hurt. 

In terms of being provocative. When I have been ""edgy"" it has been because I'm feeling comfortable with the people I'm with (they aren't going to jump down my throat or flame me) and because I ""see"" a large truth or have an inkling that feels right. It seems to be about being able to see through the words a person is using and see a core source or truth. The biggest clue for me is when there is a disconnect between actions and words.

Sometimes I like to remember how coaches in sports and performing arts work. You don't hear a basketball coach say to a player, ""That's ok that you missed every shot. Maybe your chi isn't right today."" Can you imagine? So what does a good coach do in that situation? 

PS I do love my clients but I don't consider being nice and cooing sweet platitudes loving. 
1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? We are being paid as a professional service provider after all, and we cheat our clients when we hold back with them. Why do coaches hang out in the safety zone of building up, encouraging their clients to be better, at the expense of calling it like it really is? Is it a case of needing to be able to recognize what truly is going on? Is that the missing link? Is it lack of self-confidence on the coaches part? Or is it that coaches simply do not know how to be provocative, therefore they aren't? Key thing to know/understand. Why are you not more provocative with your clients?

One thing that may stop us is a lack, of communication skills. I may get an inkling but not be adept at wording it in such a way as to be helpful. The best way for me to learn this is by examples such as the one you gave (taking on too much work).
The example shows that it is, as Thomas said, about saying the ³duh² thing! ( Rather than being clever or wise or ³coachy²) That really helps me to be edgy.

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way? Were you provocative in general and just carried it over to coaching? If so, how have you taken this ability further or refined it?
Or is this a learned skill that is newly acquired for you?

I am learning to be more so by:

-- Remembering to say the obvious
-- Getting/staying in touch with how grand the client really is ( beauty, strength, promise )
and being more on her side than she is!

This helps insure that I will be extremely and consistently respectful. It gives me this right to be heard and contributes to her openness to actually hear what is so obvious after all.

What would help you to take a leap in growth here? Practice

Just trying to see better where the problem lies, and from there, will know where to take this project.

Is there anything else I should know regarding being provocative?
Basically, ask yourself, as a coach, am I provocative enough with my clients? Why or why not? and send me your answer.

Thank you, Susan, for raising my awareness of how important it is to be edgy. We are too easily slothful. I want to be reminded to be passionate about excellence. So, I would say that I haven¹t been being provocative enough, partly because I lost site of its true power! Wow--you really DID accept the challenge to step up! Your comments hit a nerve and I need to think about it before commenting.

One thought--a lot of my ""edgy"" depends on the time of day--the later in  the day, more tired, and more supportive, less edgy. Hmmmm


I describe my coaching style as direct. It sounds to me that I define direct the same way you define provocative. And what does being direct mean to me? I make observations that are ""charge neutral."" So, I might say, using your example, ""Yes, I hear that you are very busy and, in my observation, it appears that you are the one that sets your schedule and chooses projects, like Debbie's. Would you like to look at that?""

I am direct in my observations and respectful of what the client wants. They may not be ready to look at it. But, it sure takes the whining out of the relationship and, at a minimum, plants a seed that will give the
client something to ponder.

So, how did I come to be this way? It is how I am wired. I am organized and observant and I can't stand idle conversation. I prefer being in generative relationships. I have learned to ""soften the edge"" and to respect that everyone has their own unique wiring. So, I offer direct observations and back off unless the client shows interest.


What holds coaches back? Needs. Needs to be liked, needs to be popular, needs to prove how good they are by making the most money or being the most famous, needs, needs, needs!!

Provocative "I suspect I have a tendency to be pretty much ""in your face"" about provocative statements, but generally it occurs because I believe the client is indirectly asking me to be. There can be a lot of 'talk' and  non-productive 'explaining' from people, sort of passively whining around a situation, and I really think that sometimes they are asking to be pushed into the pool because they themselves are tired of skirting the problem but are stuck in just dipping their toes rather than wading - or jumping - into the middle of it and taking it on.

The usual reaction I get is a second of shock and then a torrent of more truthful self-exploration on their part, and then a ""thanks, I can't believe you got right to the heart of it that way."" It's the torrent that tells me 
they were ready for the provocation.

I am, admittedly, impatient with inaction. All of us have our own areas in life where we know we're procrastinating, but after a while it's ""put up or shut up."" Tackle it or let it go, but don't keep moaning about it for the rest of eternity. Life is too short, there's too much ""good stuff"" to do, to get bogged down in expending energy that has no payback. I've got all the compassion in the world for people in a tough spot, but it wanes if that person's modus operandi is simply to wallow in it.


My experience: Coaches aren't provocative for many reasons. I've attended several different coaching schools and programs -- and most of them work very hard to stop their ""students"" from injecting any information or expertise into their coaching. Hence, even people who might have had an edge going into coaching school can come out the other side without it. Additionally, I've not experienced many coaching instructors who are provocative, hence it is not modeled to the students. And if you haven't seen it used, and learned how to be edgy without being ""over the top"" with it, you might be hesitant to use it. Finding the balance between being provocative and being supportive takes seeing it done, then practicing it, then getting feedback, then trying it again...repeat as necessary. To point out the truth of a situation directly (as in your example in your R/D Team email) without a judgment in it takes practice. Would be great to collect a series of real- world client situations and then show a ""regular"" coaching response versus an edgy/provocative coaching response to it. Being edgy is an advanced coaching skill that can be learned...thanks much for bringing this to the fore.

I too believe I'm more provocative in my statements than  my questions. Also, I desire my own coach to make more statements than to ask me questions. I love that you're investigating this.

In general I think I had first learned to be provocative simply as a ""survival tool"" in my own life.
During my 20's, I almost ""had"" to be provocative in order to create enough mental space to think for myself and break free from a lot of the limiting beliefs that the world around me insisted that I believe. I found myself 
with a mindset that wouldn't allow the life I wanted. To some degree, it was outright warfare to reclaim the freedom to pursue the life I wanted. So that earlier stage of provocative was to clearly establish boundaries 
around myself. Sometimes it was directed towards others to ""prevent"" their ideas from crossing into my space. Other times it was directed toward myself to challenge beliefs that held me back. Maybe there were other ways for me to go about the growth, but it was the tool I saw and knew how to utilize. Looking back, I can see that I experienced it very much like a defensive war game: ""don't bring that stinking thinking near me! I'll do what it takes to keep those types of beliefs away from me!""

Since I like to think that I've become comfortable maintain my own beliefs regardless of how those around me are thinking/behaving, I've been able to lose the adversarial edge, but have kept the ability to make the bold statement. Perhaps the best way to state it is that I went from using a charged edge to an edge. On a good day, it's a compassionate edge.

As for when I'm not provocative...
For new clients, there are 2 situations that I can think of why I'm less likely to be provocative in the first few sessions. 1) I have less intuitive insights at the beginning about the underlying dynamics, so I 
have less to boldly state. 2) My self-imposed ""pressure to perform"" is more likely to appear at the beginning of the relationship, so I don't want to make a mistake and I'm probably less in touch with my intuition then. Unfortunately, the ""pressure to perform"" may result in me trying too hard, and saying something that

Also, I've been exploring this lately with a client. I had been provocative for several sessions, then stopped being provocative, and wasn't sure why. Then the client said something that could be summarized 
like this: ""you were right what you said 2 months ago. That's what's going on, and what I need to do, but I wasn't ready/willing to act on it then, but now I am. Bring on your high-end coaching again, because I'm ready to receive it again. But I still want permission to back it off in case I feel like I'm not ready again.""
So, I came to realize that I had stopped being provocative because the client had withdrawn permission to be provoked and to be coached along the path that the client most wanted.

Maybe in this case, I did exactly what the client needed, but in general I would prefer to have not slowed down as long as I did. Therefore, where I would like to grow with this is to learn how to integrate this dynamic into the coaching relationship. Maybe even during the take in process. Clearly communicate to the client that I'm coaching with their permission, that it is common to withdraw permission at times on a particular topic, and how we'll handle it, and how long permission is withdrawn for (should I wait for them to reinstate permission? Should I ask at the beginning of the next session if I have permission again? etc.). This would make it easier/quicker to get back to high-end coaching in that particular topic, but would also allow a ""withdrawal of permission"" to be more easily localized to a single topic, instead of spreading more to the whole relationship like I had let it.

It would be fair to say that I am provocative by nature. In the past this trait could and was used as a ""weapon"". You know, getting to the guts of something, but not exactly in an empowering way for the person on the receiving end.

Having come a long way in how I use this gift (how I see being provocative now) I sometimes find myself struggling with whether I will cut someone off at the knees if they are sensitive vs. I am being edgy and provocative.

Using humor (a natural trait for me) and having a solid foundation with a client is essential for to use provocative statements. 

The foundation with the client is the caring/honesty/integrity/holding client big that is designed into the relationship/alliance from the beginning. This isn't just rhetoric. I consciously and intentionally bring this as part of my being. It is also part of the very first conversation I have with every client.

As a coach, I also need to be aware of my clients ability to hear something. So how I phrase my insights is important. My clients are also aware that if something doesn't land right, to bring it up immediately.

My clients appreciate my directness because it always comes from a place of respect and ""holding them big""... If this is to be explored as a coaching tool, coaches need to fully conscious of how it is landing and their motivation for using it.

Here is a great example of how this tool can back-fire on a coach and damage their credibility with a client: 
I was speaking with another coach. In an attempt to be ""edgy"" he made a comment that my tight schedule was bullshit. WRONG MOVE...1)his statement was inaccurate. My calendar is booked with client and business related meetings for the next two weeks. 

2) His comment was ignorant. I have an interest in a second business that requires my time. Not knowing the facts of my situation before being edgy borders on shooting ones mouth off.

3) His comment was inflammatory. The comment landed a bit like he was calling me a liar. That is not being edgy, that is being contradictory and inflammatory. It certainly is less than empowering...

This is one tool that requires enormous skill and consciousness on the part of anyone who is going to use it. 

A good measure if one is adept with it is how many clients stay/leave. If they are fading away after a few months chances are poorly used edginess drove them away. Or just mentally exhausted them. Who wants to be on guard and constantly defending themselves if the provocative statement tool starts to feel like an 
assault... 


1) Lack of confidence. We are educated to be polite (especially in Britain -aaargh!!) so it takes huge amounts of courage to say what is obviously the truth for you without appearing to be rude. 


2) I can do this. I am known as a provocative coach, but all I am doing is what you describe, saying it as I see it.

And I agree, I
can't stand all these nice coaches who make everything right and agree with everything the client says so when I start with a new client I always explain that I am provocative, direct and do what is called laser coaching (so my mentor Zoran tells me). Mind you it is perfectly possible to say just about anything without charge. Actually I have even said (to someone I had difficulty coaching because they were the husband of a good friend of mine) .....'this is really difficult for me to say but..........' So even when I have had problems stating what I was seeing I found a way just by saying I was having a problem and then doing it. And I remember the first time I did that I could feel my heart pounding but it worked and ever since then it has got easier. Mind you I no longer coach friends of friends - doesn't work too well for me!



I am provocative enough with my clients... 

but...Cautionary Note:
1. In general, I am a very provocative coach, challenging my clients and asking the questions that need to be asked rather than just remaining in a safety zone. BUT I did have one client that totally lost it because of this. I had worked with a client for several months and felt that she was in a generally healthy place and she had set up a little too much on her plate (very close to the example you used) and the prior session I had asked the provocative questions about that - from several angles - and she was unwilling to acknowledge that it was too much. The next session she was in overwhelm and I just reminded her of her decision to add a specific element during the previous week and asked her a provocative question (not in a manner of interrogation but rather curiosity about why she had felt she had wanted that at that point but not now). She completely lost it on the phone, hung up and ended all coaching. We did mend fences and have occasional contact but she completely lost trust in me. I have an idea that there was a mental health issue from her past involved but it did make me re-consider my provocative nature for quite awhile. I now make this aspect of my coaching really, REALLY clear up front and during the initial session so that I only get clients who anticipate it and grow from it....
How I Got that way:
2. I was never afraid to be provocative, and added five years of police training where I had to jump into crisis situations (best ""provocative training"" I've ever had). BUT, I really made intentional shifts in the nature of how I was provocative in my coaching practice from some specific GSC materials, including the list of ""What to share with a client"". In fact that list was so helpful, I had it laminated and it hangs on the wall in front of me during sessions. If I have a comment or question that covers one of those points, I mention it. It has made all the difference in my refined skills at being provocative and provided a huge leap in growth.


Yes, I am provocative with my clients---primarily because my purpose is to question conventional wisdom and help clients envision new possibilities for themselves. 

The danger is an over extension of this personal coaching strength can become a weakness if the provocation is more about me (my way of seeing the world) than about the person being coached. I work very hard to keep ""me"" (my values, assumptions/beliefs, vision and guiding principles) out of the coaching interaction so that my provocative action is a reflection of or response to the client's perception (not mine).

If we are not careful, we can easily be blinded by our perceptions.

1) What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients?
a.. fear of upsetting client 
b.. loss of client openness
c.. loss of client
d.. not clear how to come across as provocative and supportive
e.. not clear on distinctions:
stimulating vs. offensive 
assertive vs. hostile 
a.. possible trouble with common (#1) definition of provocative: 

1. To incite to anger or resentment.

2. To stir to action or feeling.

3. To give rise to; evoke: provoke laughter.

4. To bring about deliberately; induce: provoke a fight.



2) If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way? 

Very ruminative, iconoclastic in youth (?) 

Held a lot of leadership positions, so not afraid to be provocative. 

I was, when seeking to stimulate someone, generally aggressive/hostile/edgy. 

Also, a source of energy I wanted to replace.

I have since moved more toward stimulating/assertive/edgy.

I improve more as I learn.

The key for me is in maintaining and communicating, in some way, my underlying rationale: to keep the best interest of the person at the forefront.

3) Am I provocative enough with my clients?

Probably still too edgy. Certainly provocative.

Provocative. Yes, most of the time. I have this deep-seated concern about what I call the 'Tyranny of Niceness'. So often people are afraid of 'up-setting' others and so skirt around the obvious. And even when we can see it we kind of poke and prod at the issue rather than address it full on.

So though I have a nice style as well I also have -- for some clients -- a style that's been labeled (not by me) 'nose bleed coaching' that hold people so close to the issue that there is no escape. It not rude, it's not
loud, it's persistent -- so if they slide away I drag them back; and its insistent -- I want a response from them, a commitment to action (often any action). Once they promise the action -- 'I'll call xxx tomorrow' then I pick up my mobile and offer it saying 'Why not now?' At then moment I want them to get through their fear of the call and as I'm there somehow I set up a counterbalancing pressure that leaves little or no room to escape. 

And, it doesn't always work but most always it leads to a breakthrough, to an action that wasn't possible before. 

In one instance I coached a client who'd talked for two years about giving up his job and moving back to London without doing anything. In about an hour over dinner, he moved right past that, resigned the next day and hasn't looked back since. I could have been nice to him for another two years and he'd still be in the old job complaining.


being part of something (as t outlined in the ""how to start a r & d team""). some folks just like to be a part!

i am incredibly inspired to carry on his work.

having a very small taste for the bigness of t's vision (according to the Coachville intro page) AND i heard from dave buck's mouth, his version of it, on the way to the phila airport...it would appear you could use some folks with the ability and desire to make things happen. i'm one of those people.

i've found the best way to learn is to teach...and this would throw me into the very thick of it.

one of the things that i told my husband, elon, after the phila workshop was...i really, really, really want
to work with these folks - well, susan, here's my opportunity.

and i love the idea of ""a community"" and i have a great feeling about ""the c'ville community"", based on what i've experienced thus far.

i am also very creative (i happened to listen to the coaching critique, whereby you were the client...at the
time of your life, when you realized you were very creative! congrats on that revelation...and putting it to
such good use! we have all been blessed by it) very cool!!!


What I admire most is if someone can have the edge and be provocative at the same time. I agree with what you are saying, I wouldn't play the two out against each other, though: in order to be very good at being 
provocative the supportiveness has to be there (excellently done by Thomas at the coaching critiques - he never put a coach in the defensive yet was always giving very valuable feedback. I only heard two critiques 
with you and once with Dave and once with a woman coach: the coaches were put in the defensive quite quickly, which prevented real learning on their part.

I am also a bit taken aback with your comment, that none of them would pass the certification ( a few got 4-5 stars...) - more importantly: even if it were true it is not something to be broadcasted to the whole 
R+D-Team: how are you going to get other coaches to volunteer for this highly effective learning opportunity for other coaches.....


1) What stops me? Well, in the beginning I didn't understand what clients really wanted from me. I didn't realize that being edgy is a value!

Now, when I hold back, I find 2 things going on:
a) I'm afraid if I am TOO edgy I will lose the client (when in truth it's usually the opposite)
b) I am not being fully present, because when I AM fully there with the client, provocative questions or statements arise naturally.

Sometimes in the earlier part of my training, I found myself resisting my own edginess out of some misguided sense of ""being polite."" I now know that cutting through BS is part of why clients hire us -- we have the guts to do that for them when perhaps no one else will.

I do know that particularly my business owner clients and CEOs seldom tolerate ""holding back"" on my part -- they WANT it edgy and straight, no pretty decorations. Just give 'em the shot and get it over with, 
LOL. They are adults and expect to be treated that way, and feel insulted or diminished in some way when I give them less than that.

I am NOT a provocative person, outwardly. I know people with a ""New York attitude"" who are truly obnoxious. That's not me. I'm not in your face. But I DO question and challenge the edges, to see what else is there. I am a natural explorer, and it seems like my curiosity (apart from occasionally getting me into trouble) is really an asset for my coaching.

My clients tell me that I am a catalyst for them. Often something I say will bubble up months after I said it, and they will quote me word for word (and then I tell them, ""Did I say that?"") I hear my quotes coming back to me from clients and colleagues, which is pretty amazing! At the time I say these things, I am totally ""with"" that client, ""with"" whatever is going on in the conversation, and whatever I say arises/emerges from that connected place. I don't often remember what I've said, but my clients do!

I am not of the opinion that edgy means ""mean"" or cold. To my way of thinking, the most loving thing we can do for someone is to tell the truth. If a coach is thinking that it is an either/or situation, then I believe there's a problem or a disconnect somewhere. I am always loving, AND, I tell the truth with an edge, if it comes out that way. I can be kind, and still say what's true. That's just me, and what I believe. But 
I know to my core it's what makes me a successful coach, and why my clients seek me out.

Ah, I think I see a distinction here. When I am fully present, COMING from the place of deep connectedness to Source, then I will be naturally kind and loving, AND tell the truth. This is often delivered straight up, 
without any niceties or euphemisms, just as it is. No need to explain it or make it land softer, just to say it out. That's my job. So what is the distinction? Edge coming from a place of kindness and connection vs edge coming from judgment, self-centered ego-state, or desire to get something, manipulate. I think part of some coaches' confusion may have to do with the latter, and not wanting to go there. Good news is, they don't have to :-)


Provocative - me?

Oohhh ... now there's the thing. It's in my nature to be the Stabiliser, the Earth Mother, the nurturer - so being edgy is something I find a struggle. That's not to say I won't do it - I'm starting because I
recognise it's something that can benefit from working on, for my own personal development as much as anything else.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that provocative questions often are ""leading"" questions - and I dislike those, both receiving them and giving them out. It just isn't ""clean"" enough for me.

When I opened your e-mail, I started to cry. Somehow it brought home more clearly than anything else, what an enormous task you have undertaken. I will do my best to help.

A far as this topic goes, I have many thoughts about it, since I have been working on it for about 30 years. My book, What is the Emperor Wearing? Truth-Telling in Business Relationships addresses the issue.

I've agreed with your observation that a statement is often much more powerful than a question. I teach people that in general, it cuts their power to ask the question that they already know the answer to.
1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? We are being paid as a professional service provider after all, and we cheat our clients when we hold back with them. Why do coaches hang out in the safety zone of building up, encouraging their clients to be better, at the expense of calling it like it really is?
2.Coaches are not the only ones who hang out in the safety zone. Most people are desperately afraid of either losing face or of causing someone else to lose face, there for politeness is an extremely high value. There is a most unpleasant feeling-shame-that is associated with either losing face oneself, or causing someone else to lose face. Lose face means feel embarrassed. There for people pretend not to notice obvious things that would cause embarrassment. Pretend may be an incorrect word, because this is not done consciously. Chris Argeris wrote an entire book on the subject. It has to do with why organizations don't work. If you want reference I could look at all for you.Is it a case of needing to be able to recognize what truly is going on? I believe it often is of not he able to recognize what is going on. I have a set of tools I have been teaching for years about how to recognize this information. Is that the missing link? Is it lack of self-confidence on the coaches part? Or is it that coaches simply do not know how to be provocative, 
therefore they aren't? I think being provocative is as much personality trait is anything else. High Ds (DISC) or 8s on the Enneagram find a very easy to be provocative. In fact, they have a hard time not being provocative. Most other personality types, have a harder time doing this Key thing to know/understand. Why are you not more provocative with your clients?
3. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way? Were you provocative in general and just carried it over to coaching? If so, how have you taken this ability further or refined it?

I am one of those naturally provocative people, but I wasn't very effective that it until I learned to choose, on the basis of the system, what made sense to confront, and what didn't. This all happened a long time ago.
Or is this a learned skill that is newly acquired for you? What would help you to take a leap in growth here?
Just trying to see better where the problem lies, and from there, will know where to take this project.
I think it would help, if coaches learned this information to show them how recognize when someone is leaving out important information and is not aware of doing so. Almost any response to this kind of hidden information will be seen as provocative. Is there anything else I should know regarding being provocative?
There are many different ways to be provocative, to make someone think 
outside of the box, besides confronting them directly.

Basically, ask yourself, as a coach, am I provocative enough with my clients? Why or why not? and send me your answer. Susan, one of the reasons Thomas was so powerful in his letters to the R&D team, is that he ask very specific questions. I think the more specific you can make your questions, the easier it will be for us to respond to them. Do want any additional help with that part?


My pleasure entirely. I only wish I could have done more. And, yes Thomas would want us all to continue forward. It will be a transition, and at times a painful one, but I see you easily moving his work forward in a  way that it becomes yours, and you become it. I'll support you to grow into your own really big shoes any way I can.


It's simple for me. My singular goal each day is to be AUTHENTIC. My clients and I agree ""at the gate"" that they will receive honest, practical and authentic feedback and input to their questions and quandaries.
They expect straight talk from me even if it gets ""edgy."" I don't resort to shock statements, however, I ask permission to be candid.


When working with a client, or meeting with someone who is interested in finding out more about coaching, or a prospective client, if they make a statement or say something that triggers me I:

a.. Ask their permission to be honest
b.. Tell them my style is blunt and straightforward
c.. Let them know I am not ""married"" to anything I say
d.. Tell them ""I'm not here (it's not about) your liking me""
e.. Shoot straight from the hip
Somewhere in the conversation I have informed them of the clients I work best with (especially the part that I don't work with clients who need someone to ""convince"" them of what they can achieve) and it's a joint
decision. (I have to feel the person is serious about what they say they want to accomplish, whatever it is, and is willing to devote their resources to do it. If not I will not take the client on even if they want me as a
coach). I let them know that success is important to me, and I can only be successful if they are successful in reaching their goals, and I don't take on clients that I feel my skills, experience and style are not a match to help them achieve their goals. That would prevent me from accomplishing my bottom line, being successful at what I do. I also let them know I will not continue to accept a check and permit them to ""skate"".

I hope this is helpful.

As I reflect back on what I have written I think being a provocative coach means knowing what you are trying to accomplish as a coach, what type of clients you should work with to accomplish that, and demanding, both you and your client, to live up to the responsibilities of your decision to partner together for success.


Darling how lovely to see another coach as amazing as Thomas. No wonder he liked working with you. There is no doubt I will continue to be an active member of this team whenever possible. As to your questions:

1) Lack of confidence. We are educated to be polite (especially in Britain -aaargh!!) so it takes huge amounts of courage to say what is obviously the truth for you without appearing to be rude. 

2) I can do this. I am known as a provocative coach, but all I am doing is what you describe, saying it as I see it.

And I agree, I
can't stand all these nice coaches who make everything right and agree with everything the client says so when I start with a new client I always explain that I am provocative, direct and do what is called laser coaching (so my mentor Zoran tells me). Mind you it is perfectly possible to say just about anything without charge. Actually I have even said (to someone I had difficulty coaching because they were the husband of a good friend of mine) .....'this is really difficult for me to say but..........' So even when I have had problems stating what I was seeing I found a way just by saying I was having a problem and then doing it. And I remember the first time I did that I could feel my heart pounding but it worked and ever since then it has got easier. Mind you I no longer coach friends of friends - doesn't work too well for me!


Reading what you had to say sure hit home. I was a soft coach. Not any more. I realized the client wasn't always moving to where they wanted or needed to be and I was part of the reason. 
Since I have questioned, cajoled, prodded, challenged and sometimes got in their face, my referrals are up. We're having more fun and more results in hitting goals.
You need to be sensitive to personality types as to how you do it, but don't use that as an excuse.

Provocative "I am at my best as a coach when I am provocative. Usually I can get a client's attention and move them forward or change the way they are viewing a situation by making a statement that creates a flash of new-found meaning for them. I am provocative when I point out something the client clearly is missing or has forgotten (or is trying to forget or avoid) or when I turn the lens on a situation to a new way of looking at it. Being provocative always points a client toward taking responsibility for an action or a situation. It lays the groundwork for change and that is why it can be risky. Some clients really do not want change- no matter how much they protest otherwise.



Coaches want to keep clients and engaging in provocative conversations can sometimes put a client off. That makes a coach nervous. Clients can be difficult enough to get without ""chasing"" them away once you get them. Clients sometimes think of coaching as a more therapeutic occasion than it is and like to have a body to hear their complaints and confusions. Coaching is not about listening to clients for weeks and
weeks. It is about helping a client create an action plan and supporting them to reach it. Those coaches that are not engaging in provocative conversations with their clients are not coaching (IMHO)! Those clients who respond well to provocative conversations are our most coach-able clients and they will be our greatest successes. Those clients that cannot handle the provocative conversation are likely not to move forward with their coaching anyway. New coaches need to understand this and they need to understand how to be provocative with a smile, enjoying the client and enjoying the session. 



How does one learn to coach effectively using provocative conversations? First, I think a real understanding and demonstration of what we are talking about is appropriate. Students of coaching need to hear master
coaches doing it the way it should be done. Maybe the critiques leave too much room for error? Perhaps potential coaches can not utilize the critiques as a significant learning tool because they really do not know
what they should be listening for? Some of us were blessed with personalities that help us to be very effective coaches. The ability to engage in provocative conversations may be a characteristic that some of
us display more readily than others. That being said, it can be learned and understood. Students must see it in action to gain an understanding of it, the power of it, then they can learn to begin to apply it to what
they do. 


Edgy coaching "I have trained counselors for the last 20 years in how to work with troubled teens in a residential setting and see that many of the issues you raised in this email are the ones I have encountered as well. (This is my first contribution so please take what suits you, I will learn as I go.)

I find that the coaches/counselors who are the most ""stuck"" in one style - loving or edgy - have had personal issues or problems in the style they do NOT use. They rely on their preferred style as a counter-balance to what they do not want to deal with in their own personal lives. 

This keeps them comfortable and safe....and only effective with clients who respond to that particular style. They are like one-trick-ponies.

They either:

- do not know how to be edgy without all the other ""negative"" traits that are hooked up with it surfacing as well (mostly men in my experience)
- or skipped steps in their own growth and development so do not have conscious access to the edgy side (mostly women in my experience)

Examples:

Men who have been combative or aggressive in their youth have sealed that period up in their ""emotional vault,"" all in one piece, so as to be more socially acceptable. But they do not have access to the strengths of that style. Who they are today is more loving and understanding minus the scrappy, edgy, challenging and provocative power. They fear the violent aggressive, or combative parts coming out as well. They have not been able to separate the wheat from the chaff of their former lives, so it is all in storage, and they are only partially effective. Women say ""I used to be such a bitch, if I let any of it out, it will ALL come out!)

Women who have been raised to be subservient ( and usually stripped of or have surrendered their healthy anger and power) adopt a style of love minus good boundaries, a powerful stand, and clear voice in their work. They know what to do but do not have the tools to take a stand and mean business so they resort to indirect methods of persuasion and reason - and again, are only partially effective.

Both of these stances are semi-narcotic in their affect because loving feels good, it is spiritual work, it fits the ideal of a good person, and we ""make nice"" while feeling in control, etc. Their goal is to create good feelings. Feeling good is not the same as growing and changing! The teens/clients would rather they stay loving so they don't have to change or get uncomfortable either.

The most effective way I have found to teach with them is to tap into their own natural motivational flows for the work they have chosen. Teens are very black and white so the results are instant and visible. These are all caring and motivated people who love what they do....that provides the opening for increasing the personal skills needed to be effective with more than one type of teen/client. Their desire provides the motivation to do their personal emotional work, practice new skills, and become comfortable with more than one style, when they see the results. 

I also explain that they do not have to ""become"" the edgy person, only use the edgy style. This is a big reframe for them. They use the style as a tool not as a way of being.
 

This really resonated w/ me, as I've been analyzing my own post-client-session journal entries, and have realized that I am the most energized when I spark new thinking in my clients versus ""just"" supporting them. It is when I refuse to be nice, when I tell the TRUTH, that real progress occurs. I just sat down with a client I've had for a year. She wanted to celebrate her progress, so bought me lunch. Over dessert, she talked about how painful the ""storming"" phase of our relationship was, yet how in retrospect she could not be where she is today if not for her coach's refusal to accept the (excuse my french) crap she was telling herself at the time. That ""storming"" was the first couple times I engaged in what I now, in retrospect, realize was provocative statements.

One of the principles of attraction is to evolve and accept, as I recall. I often refer to it as Stimulate Your Development. It's all about placing yourself in new environments, or around new people/ideas, and then paying attention to what happens, and following new paths that reveal themselves. Hiring a coach who will PROVOKE is exactly what people need to do to serve themselves.

OK, finally, to your question: what would help me to take a big leap here... Hmm... I ""get"" the concept, but still find myself leaning toward being nice versus edgy -- I'm an ENFP, and that F just comes up and wants to be empathetic. So a program/learning tool that would help me transition from experimenting with provocation to truly believing in it and using it every time it's appropriate -- THAT would help me make the leap.



Provocative

I think as a society we're taught to be 'nice'. to be provocative as you've described it is to enter in to the realm of being almost confrontational. Nothing wrong with that in its place but generally it is not a skill that is encouraged in the main stream.

Using your analogy you're making a statement vs. asking a question.

I guess a lot of coaches like to come from an 'airy-fairy' point full of 'warm and fuzzies'. It's a lot easier to use a structured sentence like ""didn't you agree..."" than ""you made a clear choice..."".

If you look at the 15 proficiencies navigating down this path, to me, would see the coach having the ability to be able to utilise several of the proficiencies in one statement.

Using your example 'didn't you agree to take on extra work while Debbie was out' uses several proficiencies at once - I see 1,2,6,9,10,12,13 &15 but taken to a deeper level.

Where Thomas described you as 'edgy' I dare say he was acknowledging your freshness and probably your lack of conformity to the norm. I love that. I've always looked outside the square and asked the 'hard'
questions or made the less than 'socially acceptable' 'norm' statements.

I think your style is coming from a different level - probably a higher one where you were taught to ask ""why not"" as opposed to ""why"" and settle for the answer. I have often been labeled as confrontational (may be our society) asking the Questions and drilling down. I relish the truth and really detest superficiality and bulldust basically.

I depend very much on my own ability and my own sense of equity to solve an issue - with that I also use this style in my communications. Reflecting - I was 3 and my Mum was ironing. I asked if I could do
some. Mum said ""no you're too young"". I responded with ""if I'm old enough to ask, I'm old enough to try"". Needless to say I did it and did it well.

Question 1 is two-fold: yes, most coaches have that coaches hat glued to their head - they're the expert and you're just here for the ride. Secondly, to be too 'provocative' is to put yourself out there and maybe threaten one's income. If you look at it I think too many coaches are 'championing the client' but not drilling down on it. Also I think a lot of coaches don't have the skills to allow a mutual growth process. I also believe a lot also have a fear of failure.

Of those who respond to you in an affirmative ti would be interesting to see how they view failure - to me no one fails who has tried their best.

Question 2 enters different realms again. A female would generally be labeled pushy, demonstrative and confrontational whereas a make is more oft than not assertive or innovative - cultural issues. I think it
takes a lot to be a woman in a mans' world.

I think the 88 statements would be fantastic - a real eye opener - almost an ""aha"" for most.

... think there's tons to this, and well worth exploring ... am sure you'll  have many responses on this ... the thing I'd like to point to is the crucial nature of holding any edginess/provocation within the framework of 
the whole of the coaching process - for me, meaning that a sharp tool like this works best when it's skillfully wielded - always from the motivation and with the goal of:
* revealing the client to themselves (and that can only be done as far as they are able to absorb the revelation)
* eliciting greatness (as opposed to pointing out flaws)
* enjoying the client immensely (again, this, rather than being provocative because I'm frustrated!)
* expanding the clients best efforts (their best efforts may be in a different place from ours)
* navigating via curiosity (being open to the possibility we may be off in our appraisal!)
* recognizing perfection in every situation (so rather than an attempt to 'fix' something we see as being wrong, the provocation is intended to result in the client noticing something they may not have before and then be free to make a choice of their own)
* honing in on what's most important (being clear our aha provocation is about what's most important for the client, and not about our 'stuff'!)
* communicating cleanly (when we - in our humanity - discover we have been hooked by our own stuff, simply owning that! - an enormously powerful learning for all!)
* sharing what's there (willingness to risk being provocative, even if we might be a little 'off')
* championing the client (perhaps along with the provocative statement reminding them of another situation from their lives when they've made different - perhaps wiser, more courageous choices - than right now)
* entering new territories (building on the last comment, using the energy from their own past experience to fuel the risk into this new area)
* relishing truth (there's the saying that acknowledges the Scripture 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free' and adds, 'but first it'll piss you off and/or terrify you!' ... that freedom does come, but only after we've been willing to acknowledge and accept the presence of those other sometimes more uncomfortable feelings first!)
* designing supportive environments (that co-creativity's where the coaching can be enormously important to the client - particularly if/when they're feeling a little overwhelmed!)
* respecting the client's humanity (both their incredible giftedness, and their equally palpable humanity!)
... actually, didn't know this was all going to come out! ... having done this, I think it's kind of a cool thing to use the proficiencies as a lens through which to look at all kinds of questions/issues ... so, for what 
it's worth, here you are ... have fun 'playing' with all the ideas! ...  

I'm often provocative with my clients. A few weeks ago a client was telling me about the time she spends in the afternoon preparing for her boss's next day (she called it ""T-square time"", for some reason). I knew one of her issues was taking time to plan for herself daily.

Do I asked her ""when is your own ""T-square"" time? She gasped, was so taken aback! It was a great question, and helped her become more insightful.

I just say what I see. Sometime I say ""May I be so blunt"" or something like that to prepare them, but I feel it's a disservice to the client to ""pussy-foot"" around.

Also, I'm an 8 on the enneagram, so I relish confrontation (to good effect)

You ask a provocative question. I think there are several answers. For me, my training was in psychotherapy and although I think of myself as a non-traditional therapist, my training and my personality make me tend to be careful about where and when I challenge clients. The question of ""are they ready to hear this?"" comes up for me often. Psychotherapy tends to be not as direct and does tend to use questions as opposed to statements. So I think for some it has to do with their training.

For others, I think that ""nice"" people tend to be attracted to coaching (helping people and all that) therefore I think a lot of us have difficulty being provocative perhaps out of fear of the client being upset or ""firing""
the coach or just out of a need to be nice.

I think the value of you bringing this topic up is to demonstrate that there is a value to being provocative and that it is a useful and desirable tool and part of being a good coach.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I think it starts with training people to be, and how to be more provocative. I really think this is a valuable discussion.


I, personally, am not nearly as provocative as I'd like to be. Why? It seems to be tied up in that old adage, ""if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all"". 

Though being provocative isn't mean, being that edgy is a little scary for me. When I am, I love it and it is very effective for my clients.

But, I am not edgy enough with my clients.

Provocative "
1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? 

I think the answer to this lies in the coaches own comfort level. Sometimes it has to do with their fear of the client ""not liking them so they quit."" Sometimes it's just that the self-esteem of the coach isn't strong enough to get very edgy with the client. I think the more the individual coach does their ""own"" work, the easier it is for them to help others do theirs. And let's face it -- edginess isn't for everyone and some people (clients, coaches) can't take it.

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way? Were you provocative in general and just carried it over to coaching? If so, how have you taken this ability further or refined it? Or is this a learned skill that is newly acquired for you? What would help you to take a leap in growth here? 

I feel I've always been edgy. The more I do my own work, the more I can tell that I don't need to listen to what ""society"" tells me I HAVE to do or I should do. Being a person that listens to what authority says has never worked for me. I think that my self-confidence in what I know -- the fact that I KNOW that when clients have worked on themselves, taken suggestions, listened to the ""Truth"" about themselves, they do a much better job of creating the life they want. The more confidence a client garners in themselves, and then gives them self permission to experience the good in their life, the more they are able to accept edginess.

Is there anything else I should know regarding being provocative?

I think a lot of coaches are afraid to be edgy with their clients because they are afraid to drive them away. Many coaches I know seem to want to keep money coming in and feel that if they are edgy, they may loose the individual. I don't think that is true. For me, clients seem to value the fact that I help them discover their truth.

Coaches have to come to terms with WHY they are doing this work -- is it to assist the client to their best good (as the client defines it) or is it because they want to make money and move on? Both of these can be a consideration but differently I think.

 
To respond to your first question: What stops coaches from being more provocative....

In my earliest days as a coach the answers would be:
- afraid of 'offending a client' due to lack of confidence/experience.
- afraid of losing a client, due to giving offence (above) therefore loss of income.
- 'offending' clashed with my 'nice guy' image of myself.
- didn't 'get' the value in provocative.
- wanting to 'fix' versus seeing the perfection in the situation.
- wanting to 'protect' the client from seeing the truth.
- hoping the client would see the truth so that I didn't have to introduce it. (related to 'offending' above)
- when I started trying on 'provocative' I often simply threw a non-sequitor provocation into the mix. e.g. ""You say you don't like your boss... why not just quit?"" instead of ""Is this about fear of confrontation because he
called you on your absenteeism?"" I would ask the former with the intention of simply being provocative (because 'provocative conversations' was on the list!) and it didn't risk offending the client by mentioning their
absenteeism. The latter is about getting to the truth without attachment or fear about having absenteeism on the table.

Second question: How I became more comfortable with provocative...

- I started seeing the value of telling myself the truth, and realized that clients deserved the opportunity in seeing it too; and bottom line, it was my job to introduce the concept. The affirmation I use on myself, and offer to clients goes like this: ""I tell myself the truth, and frequently ask 'what am I pretending not to know'""? - and then I add "" I do it with compassion."" because if/when I tell myself the truth, chances are I am going to discover something about what I am doing, or how I am being, that I may not like. If I call myself a jerk or beat myself up over it, I will soon lose interest in the truth. When I do it with compassion, I find myself saying ""Hmmm isn't that interesting."" versus, ""What a jerk, you ought to know better."" That way there is little, if any 'charge' around discovery of the truth, and I actually go looking for places where I may still be pretending.

- My experiences with clients (and theirs too) demonstrated that provocative/edgy/truthfulness brought great value when used with respect and without attachment. My realization that the client was actually paying
me to be provocative and speak the truth was a big step, because so few (if any) people in his/her life were honest for them. I realized I could not do otherwise and remain doing this stuff (coaching) with integrity. Anything else meant I was simply a purchased friend and that is not what I signed on to be. I owed it to them and to me, to coach; and to coach without being provocative is impossible.

- ""Getting"" more of the subtleties of the 15 Coaching Proficiencies was also a big help. Thank you to the R&D team, Thomas, and you Susan for some of the teleclasses, discussions, and R&D memos on the subject. I remember being on a call about the advanced Proficiencies sometime last fall when I 'got' the
value in how carefully the original Proficiencies were crafted. That was a big help in my being able/willing to be more honestly provocative.

- Finally, it is simply less stressful for me as a coach to seek, speak, and hear the truth. I get recognition, connection and challenge from my clients. I love it, and am energized by it. Pretense is draining, defensiveness is draining, and fear of offending is draining. And I have no desire to be drained by being a coach. Been there done that in previous career incarnations. I have chosen to do only that which is energizing in my life, and being provocative, honest coach is 'way energizing!

1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients?

I believe for some - including me - its the sensitivity to how the client will take the statement - concerned may sound disrespectful of the client (or other people. The reaction free and absence of you programs will assist in this.

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way?

For me, its was a learned skill for me through my coach training at Corporate Coach University. There we practiced and observed examples on ""truth-telling"". A call where one could hear and try out being more
provocative could be very helpful.

Provocative "STATEMENTS: Two of my favorites (not original):
When a client’s STUCK:
“You know, if you wanna change, it means you’ve got to change something.”

And the ever popular:
“They say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results.”

Further to my earlier email: I just hosted a CV Coaching the Super Sensitive Person Study Group and we part of our conversation go into this a bit. The response:

The degree to engage in provocative conversations (proficiency 1) that is appropriate depends on respecting the clients humanity (proficiency 15). If the client is a super sensitive and is new to the concept or is unaware, they may find extreme edginess too edgy yet others (particularly those who are not super sensitive or those who have done a lot of internal work eg Thomas) more edginess is attractive to them at that time.

1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients?

I believe for some - including me - its the sensitivity to how the client will take the statement - concerned may sound disrespectful of the client (or other people. The reaction free and absence of you programs will assist in this.

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way?

For me, its was a learned skill for me through my coach training at Corporate Coach University. There we practiced and observed examples on ""truth-telling"". A call where one could hear and try out being more
provocative could be very helpful.

I consider myself ""edgy"" with my clients...and I didn't start that way. My background...doormat.

Some of my most edgiest moments...

I've held an intervention with one of my clients (she was also my boss) for her to hear directly from her; office manager, financial manager/husband, and Associate how she was preventing them from doing their jobs.

Told an employee who was about to be fired because she was intimidating her co-workers, that her attitude ""sucked"". She wasn't happy about it..and she's still there 6 months later and I've just started coaching her individually at the office now.

TRUST
a.. I first build trust...they have to know I care about them.
b.. I don't have an ego involved where I'm right and they are wrong. 
c.. They know I care and I'm doing my job.
Would I do this with all my clients? No. Would I do it again if I thought it was needed? Yes.

""Is that the missing link? Is it lack of self-confidence on the coaches part? Or is it that coaches simply do not know how to be provocative, therefore they aren't?""

I feel that some of the coach training is confusing, especially to new coaches. Very little of the training is focused on ""edgy""...instead we must believe that the client always has the answer. That's true..and there are times when the coach needs to take the lead and guide them toward those answers...and that may mean showing them something they realllly don't want to see. If they trust you enough...they will listen. If they trust you and still won't listen...time to refer to therapy. 

I know the exact answer... this is something I never told anyone in CV before..
I've got a B.S. in Psych, and if there is one thing I learned, it is this:

DIFFERENT styles for DIFFERENT people.

If you ask me those provocative questions too harsh and too strong, we would be a very bad ""fit.""


I am a woman just ""coming into her own,"" developing strong self-confidence and self-belief, and for the first time in my life,
I am becoming a stronger person. 
Maybe in 3 years, I will want you to come on BIG and very STRONG and very PROVOCATIVE and EDGY.
But for now Susan? If you are my coach, I want you to ask verrrry verrrrry gently why I didn't do what I committed to doing?

If I tell you it is because deep down I am afraid of being a success...you will ask me if I am happy being in that place of fear?

You will make an observation about my fear and ask some questions designed to get me to think. And out of that, I will find my Own way of taking steps to combat my fear.

See? You can not be too edgy nor provocative - only gently so. If you become harsh, I will not want to speak with you. I want Someone sensitive and who gently eases it out of me, as if a best friend, you see. I've had a coach for over 10 months, and let me tell you that her soft, inquisitive way, and her gently leading me to my
own answers has changed my life.

I want to say one thing that I am not sure CV ever truly fully comprehended.

Your style of coaching should be FLUENT. It should change as the client needs.
When a person is in the early stages of self confidence/self belief, you need to be almost like a lamb at first. Then a sheep. Then, only later, when they have become stronger (I like to say more ""hardened"") you can hit them with your best provocative stuff.

Coaching for a top cutting-edge super-confident dynamic strong CEO of a major corporation would most likely involve a different Style. That woman would want a coach who is on her butt, whipping her (not
literally, of course, :-) ) into her top form with VERY strong Provocative questions. She lives on the edge and would be happy for someone who can challenge her sharp brain with questions

That zero in QUICKLY - as in ""cut to the chase"" and ""Give it to me hard, baby."" :-) 

This is just my sense Susan - that when we teach about provocativeness - or anything for that matter - We teach coaches to have

More than just one ""style."" AND even the CEO... If you reach her on a day when she has just found out that her 9 year old has a 

Serious blood disorder and she wants to talk...the last thing in the world you would do that day is be provocative. A good coach would(IMHO) just ""be there"" for her, as gentle as she needed/wanted me to be...

I love your style. You are inquisitive and curious and you say you are edgy, but I love the way you wrote that R & D piece.

Never in almost 2 years have I poured out my feelings at CV before.

You feel approachable to me, and I think that you have just the right combination of ""edgy"" and also ""approachably human"" 

That will make many more respond to you. Just a hunch.

What a fascinating topic! I have spent many a long hour pondering this one! I like to think I am quite provocative in my coaching – I will not let anything obvious slip by without commenting on it! But, I must admit, I would like to be more provocative as I believe this is a great way to make huge breakthroughs for the client. Provocative questions or statements shock the client and force them to see the reality of a situation which can only be good. So, why aren’t I more provocative? Well, firstly, I am new to coaching and am still feeling my feet. I am still building my confidence, and several times, when I have wanted to make a provocative statement, I have held back because I didn’t wish to seem critical and was concerned at the effect my comment might have on rapport. (I will emphasize might, as this is something I cannot possibly know!) Also, I am concerned at the comments I make being sarcastic, as I can be very sarcastic in ‘real’ life and I try to keep this out of coaching (at the expense of telling it like it is). I would certainly love to have something in my toolkit to encourage me to be more ‘edgy’ and slip out of my comfort zone, and pull the client out of theirs too. Best of luck with this project!

Any time you want reinforcement for helping the coaching profession be provocative, come right my way!! 

What you describe as 'provocative', some might simply call 'tough love'. And aren't those coaches who are 'not' being provocative just being 'co-dependents'???

I doubt we need clients to continue to depend on us for financial reasons, but I bet there's a whole sub-text going on whereby we coaches are people who 'need' to be needed, recognised, acknowledged as 'helping' etc so it's in our (unresolved) interests to play these games.

Reminds me of Eric Berne's 'Games People Play'. I'm sure he's got an example or two in there which covers just this kind of relationship.

In direct response to your questions : 

1. What stops a coach being provocative - fear of being rejected by the client, fear of 'going too far too soon', believing the client may not be able to tolerate (or be ready for) the 'truth', being the messenger (many clients may prefer to 'shoot the messenger' than face the truth), fear of being cruel or unkind. 

Perhaps : not wanting to be the pivot for change - with all that will open for the client in terms of pain and confusion (if the coach sees the pain and confusion being a direct result of their intervention). That's a real contradiction/paradox seeing as we ARE the change agent.

Would this 'gently gently' behaviour be more appropriate in a therapeutic relationship and is this therefore a misunderstanding of the difference between coaching and therapy/counseling???

2. I chose to learn how 'not' to be a co-dependent in all areas of my life - so it's there ready to be part of my approach to coaching.

Kind regards - and good luck as you pick up the pieces in the months to come.

In response to your questions, I think that a lot of coaches are not wanting to appear like consultants. They focus more on the ""connection"" between themselves and the client. They don't want to overshadow the client and they want to make sure that the client is feeling empowered. So much attention is put into this that they end up going overboard. What they want is for the client to self-generate and get into self-referral vs. relying too much on an external opinion and as you know where the attention goes, energy flows. So there you have my two cents worth. 
I didn't want to contact you during this difficult time as I am sure you were inundated with emails. Just wanted you to know that I felt deeply for you and all that you were going through.

For me being provocative is all about being in your truth and not afraid of losing a client. From a personal experience I asked a client after our 3rd session who's life she was living. I had the sense that this was too huge for her to handle and scared her off. I believe that indeed the universe presents us with what we are able to handle, however we still have the choice to accept it or run for the hills for cover! She ran...and I realize that she was not ready for my coaching. She wanted someone to tell her what to do...a consultant. A great learning experience for me!

I believe the power of being edgy or provocative comes from the self-confidence, connectedness and ability to NOT be afraid to tell our truth always. It's not a coaching skill. It's a LIFE skill.

How about this exercise...Get a coach to talk about some issue or challenge facing them and have 3 coaches just ask questions that come to them. no going into the story, no censoring, just straight from the hip. I believe it's ok to make a client ""squirm"" feel uncomfortable. That what we know is comfortable that what we don't is uncomfortable and that is where the gap lies...

On another note:

I have belonged to Thomas' R&D team for over 2 years know and this is perhaps the 2nd time I have shared. I have always felt that I didn't have anything to contribute or share that was of worth and to have Thomas read anything I would send in scared me...he is my hero and who wants to disappoint a hero? With his passing I have come to realize that I missed an tremendous opportunity to get to know my hero. While I mourn his loss to our community He lives in me...still..


I am new to coaching myself and have been addressing this topic for myself regarding my coaching...

I am so happy you brought up this question as in my self analysis of my coaching with clients - I have noticed that I am withholding what is natural for me, unless I feel 'fairly confident' that my client can handle the provocative question or statement. 

I1. What stops coaches from being more provocative with their clients? 

I am going to give you the inside view of some of the things i've noticed about myself regarding this question, my personal debate/fears with utilizing the provocative question with clients and ways I have attempted to alter the provocative question or statement to make it sound or come off less like needling to them or goading them.

I have noticed that I have difficulty asking or stating the provocative especially with new clients. (I am hesitant because I don't know them well enough to know how they will handle/respond to my provocative statements - so I find that I am holding back.

There is something about customer relations here that is getting all mixed up for me when it comes to daring to insert the provocative question with clients. Provocative, syn. aggravate, hassle, needle, goad, inflame, incite, irritate. Good customer relations skills = listen, calm, identify with, understand, assist. While my customers are clients of a service I provide they are also my customers and I am building a business based on my customer/clients. If I consistently aggravate and irritate my customers, word of mouth will be that I do so and I won't have any customer/clients.

On the other hand - I feel the provocative question/statement is vital to good coaching. I spent 6 years with my first coach and he used both the provocative question and statement regularly but many times I got really ticked off and I left and returned many times but ALWAYS the provocative initiated a great STRETCH for me into a different way of thinking and managing my life than I had been able to recognize prior to the provocative question being raised. Today, I know that if a provocative statement upsets me it is because it contains something for me to take a look at and I am drawn to it...I seek it out rather than run from it. So, I DO see it's value to our clients.

When I am face to face with even a new acquaintance, much more so a known friend, I find that I DO see/feel the layout for the provocative question without effort and let it fly without hesitation. For example: A friend was recently complaining to me that she was sick and tired of being the one everyone in her family calls upon when their car breaks down or they need help moving or need money or etc-that she felt taken advantage of by them and she asked me, ""why do they always call me ?""...without hesitation I said, ""Because you keep saying yes? Next time one of them calls, just say no! Don't let them take advantage of you.""

1. Reminded her that she possesses power over what she agrees to or doesn't.

2. That she can simply choose differently next time.

3. Provided her food for thought = raised the question of - ""what is her motivation behind her continued agreements to do things she doesn't really want to do.

The 'duh' answer is sometimes the hardest to see for ourselves, especially when we are caught in the drama we create for ourselves from our habitual responses -the provocative can be a great aid to the client in 'clearing a new trail of thought' - so I think the provocative is one of the greatest VALUES we can provide our clients. I feel it also demands the greatest courage of me.

I have been playing with provocative questions since the loss of my first client- Playing with changing the question to a statement -and then trying another approach. Again utilizing my friend's situation above as the example:

I asked myself, how could I have accomplished the same purpose of pointing out to my friend that she was choosing to take on her families problems and had it come off less like needling or goading. (Note: my friend never has difficulty with my provocative questions...she loves em - but my clients don't always feel the same and I fear they will be irritated. Important point to share - I lost my very first client 9 months ago - because she said she expected to be supported and instead felt irritated by my questions and comments. So that's when I started looking at my provocative questions/statements and rethinking my style.

I tried -restating the comments just as if it were a question and as I did in my seminars = in seminars used for purpose of making certain that I understood the question correctly - it goes like this:

""Okay, so let me repeat this back to you and tell me if I heard you correctly. You said that you are sick and tired of your family coming to you for help and money and that you feel taken advantage of by them. You want to know why they keep calling you. Did I understand you correctly?""

This first part gives the client another opportunity to hear themselves and what they've said......sometimes they miss hearing what they're saying but DO hear/see themselves clearer when it is rephrased and repeated back by someone else. 

Second this leads to an information/fact finding question to the client - which helps them to look at what is behind the facts of their family always calling upon them. More it services them as a gentle reminder not only of their power of choice but also leads them to ask themselves why they are choosing the way they chose. 

My next question would be - ""What do you usually say when they call you for help?""

In this case, my friend would have answered that she always says ""yes."" 

My response comment: ""What would happen if you said no next time one of them called?

I feel something MOST definitely will get opened up here for either further discussion with the client or for the client to think about.

2. If you are generally provocative/edgy with your clients, can you share how you came to be that way?

I am provocative in general but I find that I AM HESITATING and it is NOT naturally carrying over to my coaching practice! Having trouble here. I see it's value, I want to find the right way to say the eye opening - provocative questions to my clients without irritating them. It IS from the daring, engaging, thought provoking questions that I have personally grown the most!

Now as to being provocative:
One area I am provocative with my clients is pointing out when they have a wispy plan to achieve a big goal. To soften the blow and open them more to the intensity of it, I might even say, ""There's something I want to tell you, but I'm concerned you¹re going to get upset"" (Client: I won't get upset. Go ahead.) ""OK, here it is. That plan isn't going to work. Do you want to know why I'm saying that?"" (Yes) ""Because you're in love with the plan but not committed to doing it."" [silence] OR ""Because you haven't taken this factor into account"" OR ""Because it's too reasonable and doesn¹t take any chances"" etc.

Another area I'm provocative with my clients is in the area of relationships. I can't believe how naïve and poorly educated clients are in the area of relationships, especially when there's so much reading available
and so many great transformational courses and workshops to take to grow in this area! Therefore, when a client starts describing a situation that indicates their ignorance of this area, I will often ask, ""John, can I be
straight with you?"" [Asking permission to be provocative takes a lot of the risk out of it without losing any of your power--in fact, indications are that it opens clients to receive your statement or question even more
deeply.] And then I will make a radical statement like ""You're not giving her what she most wants from you."" [silence] [That always gets their attention and opens them to the conversation that follows.]

As to my general attitude about being provocative or confronting clients on their bullshit, I take it one client at a time and often wait until what I consider to be the right time. I take voluminous notes on my laptop during the sessions and sometimes I make a special note in their file about something sensitive I want to bring up at a later date and when it comes up again in the next couple sessions, I'm ready to strike. If all my clients were ideal, they would always be inviting my toughest most provocative truth, regardless of the form it took. But this is not my current reality and I feel some clients really couldn¹t handle it, so for them I use a more gentle approach, part of which is choosing the right time.

Recently I had a client who negotiated with me to stop sending the18-question Session Focusing Form the night before his sessions. He had complained that it got him depressed thinking about what he hadn't
accomplished and I was willing to see what happened without it. We tried it for a couple months and even he was noticing that doing the sessions without it often left us wandering around touching on different subjects, but not really getting to the real stuff as often as before when he was sending the SFF. I wanted him to start sending it again and waited for the right time. It finally came when he complained that he was forgetting what he had wanted to address in coaching that week because he wasn¹t doing the form. I asked him:
Alex Adrian: Is it working not to send the SFF?
Client: No, it's not. And it's not working to send it.
Alex Adrian: So you're fucked either way. [Long silence] What are you going to do?
Client: I will send you something Sunday night to indicate where I am and what I'm looking for.
Alex Adrian: Great, I'll look forward to it.
NOTE: Strategic use of ""fuck"", ""shit"" and other strong slang terms, particularly in the same sentence as words indicating the large vocabulary of a well-educated person, come naturally to me as a jazz musician and serve to call attention to key points, much like Anthony Robbins using the NLP approach of slapping his chest when he wants to emphasize something. Again, I ask permission the first time I use this class of words to make sure the client isn't offended by them, and then I save them for special moments.

I have given this some thought and hope I can add something to the development of this area - I think it's important.

My first thought about this topic is that it may well depend upon who you are coaching! Not all clients will respond well to it, but many will. It's a matter of knowing when it will be okay and what particular format of ""edginess"" will sit well with a particular client.

I think I am a coach who tends to be pretty well up-front with people. I don't know if I am naturally like that, or maybe it's my experience as a lawyer working with survivors of domestic violence. I am not sure, but I tend not to treat people with kid gloves unless they are seriously in need of it (eg people in early stages of grief).

I found that clients who came across as helpless or ""victims"" responded well to being treated like they were not ""victims"" or helpless and liked that I assumed they had the capacity somewhere within them to make decisions and take responsibility for their lives. I always did this without judgment though. And I think that's the key issue (or one of them). Those provocative statements can come across as judgmental if not done well.

I think many life coaches would find it hard to come at it because they don't want to sound like they are making a value judgment or telling the client off. But I agree that not acknowledging the role the client played in the situation they are currently experiencing is not good coaching. And I agree with the ""gag factor"" on that interpretation of ""love the client"" coaching. I guess the thing here is that if you love someone, you don't support them blindly. If you think they need a swift kick up the bottom, wouldn't you do that for them??? So how do you do that and still be supportive is the question.

I was thinking about the example you gave and thought one issue was about not jumping to conclusions about why the client is feeling this way. I know its only an example, but I couldn't help thinking that while you are being provocative, there are a whole lot of other factors to keep in mind. So in this example, it may not be the extra work that is causing the problem - although that seems the obvious answer. The heart of her problem may lie somewhere else. So my first instinct would be to try and reach that. I might ask, ""what is the one thing that is taking up a lot of your time that you could most do without?"" So then, assuming the client says ""Oh its because I took on the extra work etc.."" I reckon I might respond to that client with something like:

""Hmm. Sounds like you might be feeling some regret about that decision you made then?""

The value, in my humble opinion, is in being honest and not trying to hide what you think behind banal questions or inappropriate ""cheer-leading"".

Getting the balance is tricky. But for me, I think one of the keys is to be prepared to make mistakes and to acknowledge your own imperfections. This attitude, when it's really developed will naturally lead to my coaching being more straight forward and less judgmental, whether I phrase something as a question or otherwise.

Those are just my rambling thoughts though and being a fairly new coach- I'm not sure that I'm not just talking out of my hat.

I tried to think of neat phrases that might be good for the collection ------- but I failed dismally LOL.

the thought that came to me re the virtual R&D team is touchy feely and i  am not sure how to articulate it. do with this as you like! if you don't want the story and imaginative leaps, the bold line is the bottom line!

i am working on giving and receiving. sharing and perfectionism.

it occurred to me the other day as i was doing my women on fire newsletter, that in sharing me i am giving, and that i receive in return.

the next thought was that one of the most incredible things Thomas did with the R&D team was to share his creativity, and enroll us in the creation from that. he gave freely of his ideas/concepts, was incredibly honest 
about what he wanted/didn't want from us, creating an amazing space of openness.

one of the things i am learning is that i can't do it all myself (in opposition to my Presbyterian upbringing!) and to ask for support. another thing i am learning is how personal growth leads to service to others.

putting these things all together:

my R&D team allows people to enroll in and champion me in my service to the world.
to do all the wonderful things you list on the module.